Credibility without Accountability?

[Clint Kritzer]

Slow down and smell the roses, Ed!

Again, I would be very interested in an example of me using guilt by association that was not linked to a Catholic dogma. Instances such as Mary worship and whatnot I apply to the group as a whole but I always substantiate my claim with Catholic sources.

In your post you addressed me as using a logical fallacy by saying, "And not all Catholics are whoremongering, pedophiliac, dishonest, Teddy Kennedy types." I am curious where you have read this into any post I may have made.

 

[Acts 1:8]

I have seen that association made over and over again as people point out, sometimes with considerable glee, the sins of the people in the Church and then go on to insinuate that the Church is a corrupt institution itself.

But these same people do not even hold the RCC to be "the church" and many of us do in fact hold it to be a corrupt institution. (I don't think anyone in here regards sin with glee. If it wern't for sin, none of these conversations would exist in the first place)

From:
http://www.baptistboard.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=28;t=001423

4. Arguments and debates go unresolved because unseen core differences go unresolved. Solve those first.

 

[trying2understand]

Clint, as long as we are on the subject (and off the topic) what sort of false arguement would cover correcting another persons spelling and grammar?

 

[CatholicConvert]

Smelling the roses would be nice, Clint. Unfortunately, I have a very sick wife at home who requires a lot of care, children who do not care (nothing NOTHING is more self centered than a 16 year old male) to help, a job to do, outside contracts which I am trying to bring in to start a business, etc. etc. etc. Not fishin' for pity, just want you to know that I am in a situation pretty much beyond my control. Somedays I just let go and float wherever the current and the Lord takes me.

I do not have specific examples marked on the board. Perhaps I can keep my eyes open for future examples.

Adopted --

The Lord has always had an "eklessia" on earth, begining with the small eklessia which was Adam and Eve, then going to a national eklessia which was the Jewish nation. In Matthew 21: 33 - 46, you will find Jesus prophesying that the kingdom will be taken from the eklessia of the Jewish nation and given to the Church, which is the "new nation" of the New Covenant.

The idea of an invisible kingdom is an idea which was made up during the Reformation to discredit the Church.

Oh, and there is no such thing as the RCC. There is the Church. It is catholic, which means universal. It is headed by Rome, where the bishop who heads the Church is seated. It contains many varieties of culturally different theological expressions, yet all are "catholic" (universal) in the holding of doctrines and moral teachings. That is to say, one as a member of the Church must believe in the universal teachings which constitute Christianity. One cannot be a member of this universal Church and believe in Arianism, for instance. One cannot be a member and believe in "believer's baptism".

Cordially in Christ,

Brother Ed

 

[Clint Kritzer]

Originally posted by trying2understand:
Clint, as long as we are on the subject (and off the topic) what sort of false arguement would cover correcting another persons spelling and grammar?

Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man)

attacking the person instead of attacking his argument. For example, "Von Daniken's books about ancient astronauts are worthless because he is a convicted forger and embezzler." (Which is true, but that's not why they're worthless.)

http://www.don-lindsay-archive.org/skeptic/arguments.html#hominem

 

[Clint Kritzer]

Though I appreciate you addressing the post to me Ed, I fail to see where I asked for any clarifications. There is one sentence that I find a little amusing, though:

Ed: Oh, and there is no such thing as the RCC.

What? Was there also no moon landing? Of course, a good conspiracy is unprovable so I'm in a bit of a dilemna, but I'm reasonably sure that there is an actual RCC. Careful, Carson may sweep down on you.

Just messin' with ya, Ed. Hope your wife feels better. As for the boy, we were once 16, too. A long, long LONG time ago.

 

[Clint Kritzer]

Originally posted by Clint Kritzer:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by trying2understand:
Clint, as long as we are on the subject (and off the topic) what sort of false arguement would cover correcting another persons spelling and grammar?

Ad Hominem (Argument To The Man)

</font>[/QUOTE]Upon further thought, Ron, it is probably more specifically a "style over substance" argument as cited on page 9.

 

[CatholicConvert]

Clint -

I think Carson would support me.

The Church is Catholic. There is the Roman rite of the Church, in which resides the titular head of the Church, the Holy Father.

I belong to the Eastern rite. Same Church. Just different culturally.

The title "Roman Catholic" is a derogatory begun by Anglicans in England.

Brother Ed

 

[Clint Kritzer]

The title "Roman Catholic" is a derogatory begun by Anglicans in England.

Do you have a source for that assertion, Ed? Check out the first page of hits using "Roman Catholic Church" on Google and see if you can find any sites that would have a deregatory slant:

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&q=Roman+Catholic+Church&btnG=Google+Search

Or is it one of those things like "Yankee" that was meant to be deregatory but was instead embraced by the recipients?
I searched fairly thoroughly and found nothing to back this assertion.

 

[Clint Kritzer]

Never mind, I found something:

http://www.cin.org/users/james/questions/q072.htm

I wonder how many Catholics are aware of this? As one who speaks English as a first language, I certainly was not.

 

[LisaMC]

Geez, people lighten up! First, it's not the "sinning" priests that are drawing condemnation to the RCC. It is how the RCC has chosen to handle this scandal. Second, yes, Swaggart is now non-denominational. However, the AoG took the only course of action that any christian institution should take, they defrocked him. That's not to say he was excommunicated from the AoG Church, he was just taken out of his ministerial position. He was held accountable.