Creeds? Historicity?

[Dr. Bob]

I'm more a doctrinal "confession" than a "creed" person, but there is nothing in those creeds that are not rooted/founded in the Word.

Anyone who would deny a part of orthodox Christian faith is heretical in that area, for certain.

 

[Luke2427]

:laugh: My slip is showing! I was baptised in a Missionary Baptist Church and raised by Independent Baptist parents (who skipped from church to church and sometime denom to denom but stuck with IFB concepts).

Pretty close to my own story. I was raised with the same philosophy.

And I agree with you. But the creeds were written in a time when the general culture of the time would understand there was only ONE church and that was the RC (or later on the Church of England). There was no true independence from being a part of the bigger group unless you wanted to die (or be persecuted unmercifully). So while you and I might make the distinction other less educated in the scriptures might not.

That is not the way I understand the first 500 years of the church.

The Apostle's Creed, for example, was written within the first 50 years of the last New Testament writing to answer the heresy of Gnosticism. There was no Roman hierarchy at that time.

There was then, as there is now, one catholic church of which all Christians were and are a part- but no ROMAN catholic church.

By the time of the Nicene Creed the same is still basically true. There were five primary bishoprics in the empire and Rome was just one of them.

And the Church was not persecuting ANYONE at this time. The graves of their own martyrs were still fresh when the Nicene Creed was written. Christianity had JUST been legalized about a decade before the Council of Nicaea met.

If that is so, why not just quote the scripture? It's in plain King's English.

It really does.

Luke 3:3 And he came into all the country about Jordan, preaching the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins;

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Sola Scriptura is the most useful "creed" out there.

I agree with that.

 

[glfredrick]

If that is so, why not just quote the scripture? It's in plain King's English.

English as a language was not even invented at the time of the writing of most of the major creeds of Christendom. Nor did most people read or write.

Interestingly, there was a general downgrade of the educational process and general knowledge in the world shortly after the time of the writing of the creeds (coinciding with the advance of Islam) called the Dark Ages, where if not for a strong Church with creeds easily taught and memorized, much of Christendom would have been left by the wayside. We assume that knowledge was universal as it (mostly) is now, but that was not always the case.

Still no excuse for making creeds binding as a confession (though they ARE essentially the biblical gospel distilled).

 

[quantumfaith]

English as a language was not even invented at the time of the writing of most of the major creeds of Christendom. Nor did most people read or write.

Interestingly, there was a general downgrade of the educational process and general knowledge in the world shortly after the time of the writing of the creeds (coinciding with the advance of Islam) called the Dark Ages, where if not for a strong Church with creeds easily taught and memorized, much of Christendom would have been left by the wayside. We assume that knowledge was universal as it (mostly) is now, but that was not always the case.

Still no excuse for making creeds binding as a confession (though they ARE essentially the biblical gospel distilled).

Kudos, thank you. Let us also remember, at that time it was indeed the Catholic church and in particular the monks of Ireland which helped to preserve christianity, even though today we have serious issues with Catholic church, of this we can be grateful, even as protestants.

 

[TomVols]

I value these creeds highly. I have recently memorized the Apostles' Creed.

One of the strengths of some denominations, like UMC, PCA, etc., is the usage of these creeds to affirm what is central in our doctrinal moorings.

Those who reject creeds/confessions invariably reject something orthodox. Not all, but most in my experience.

 

[TomVols]

Sproul holds creeds in their proper perspective- not as Scripture but as solid representations of essential Christian doctrines.

I think we all should see them that way.

The failure to do so has given us United Pentecostalism, Jehovah's Witnesses, Mormons, Rob Bell and many heretics within what are supposed to be orthodox churches that have forgotten them.

I do appreciate that you do consider them useful, nonetheless.

If most people would just come that far, not far enough imo, but at least that far it would help our culture greatly.

I agree. Well said and worth saying.