Creeds - What Do You Thnk About Them?

[Jerome]

"Teach our youth to make untruthful statements in religious matters, and Atheism can scarcely do more to corrupt their minds. Formal religion is a deadly foe to vital godliness. If you teach a catechism, or if you teach a form of prayer to your little ones, let it be all true; and, as far as possible never put into a child’s mouth a word which the child cannot truly say from his heart." —Charles Spurgeon, The Child Samuel's Prayer

 

[Eagle]

Perhaps a more modern vernacular by the philosopher Aaron Tippen:

"You've got to stand for something or you'll fall for anything."

 

[saturneptune]

I understood the creed well but it was an intellectual belief not a saving faith. Creeds are nothing more than what man thinks about God. A man may not know God but claim to believe a creed. We see that in Judaism and James addressed that very issue.

That is an excellent definition of a creed. I see nothing wrong with creeds as long as those who attach themselves to creeds realize that Jesus Christ and Scripture are the source of all truth. If it is viewed as a summary of beliefs that a collection of people agree on, they do no harm. However, you are exactly right. Lots of people tend to put a creed or some church doctrine on the same level as Scripture over time. Faith in a creed is not faith in Jesus Christ.

 

[Tom Bryant]

Reading the posts in this thread, you'd think that we have replaced creeds with Spurgeon.

The early church had creeds. 1 Corinthians 15:3 is an example, so is 1 Timothy 3:6. Creeds are simply statements that encapsulate what a group or an individuals give assent to. They are not meant to be all that we believe but an aid to helping us state some of what we believe.

If a church or denomination think that assent to a creed is salvation, then they are not truly a Christian in the biblical sense of that term.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

We hear on all sides great outcries against creeds

I always find it amusing that people will rail against having creeds, but then turn around and brag about how strongly they believe in the Baptist Distinctives, which is a creed.

 

[JohnDeereFan]

Today we have substituted creedal belief for personal belief, and that is why so many are devoted to causes and so few devoted to Jesus Christ. People do not want to be devoted to Jesus, but only to the cause He started. Jesus Christ is a source of deep offense to the educated mind of today that does not want Him in any other way than as a Comrade.

Source: My Utmost For His Highest (June 19)

At our church, we just finished a rather lengthy class on the major creeds, confessions and catechisms of Christianity.

The creeds, confessions, and catechisms of Christianity are a crucial codification of our convictions and to cancel these criteria will clearly conclude with catastrophe.

 

[jaigner]

The historical creeds of the Church are WAY more than simply what humans think about God. They are crucial, unifying documents that solidified orthodox Christian belief in a time before those things had been sorted out.

I would direct anyone who wants to know more about the history of the historical creeds to Mark Noll's excellent book, Turning Points. Noll is an evangelical scholar of the highest order, yet this book is accessible to any believer with questions.

There are those who say strange things like, "I have no creed but the Bible." Well, that in itself is a creed. Sing hymns or theological songs in Church? Those can be creeds as well.

I personally love the beautiful words to the Apostles' Creed.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
The Holy Catholic Church,
The communion of saints,
The forgiveness of sins,
The resurrection of the body,
And the life everlasting.
Amen.

Though millions have said these words without knowing Christ, there is no reason to reject their power and truth.

 

[Tom Butler]

I once bought into the arguments against creeds, until I realized liberals hated them. Suddenly they didn't seem to bad. If they were agin' them, maybe they deserve a second look.

I like the Apostles' Creed, but I have to be silent at a couple of points.

First, I don't believe Jesus went to hell (hellfire).

Second, regarding the holy catholic church (not the Roman Catholic church)--there ain't any such animal. There are only local congregations.

 

[Ruiz]

I once bought into the arguments against creeds, until I realized liberals hated them. Suddenly they didn't seem to bad. If they were agin' them, maybe they deserve a second look.

I like the Apostles' Creed, but I have to be silent at a couple of points.

First, I don't believe Jesus went to hell (hellfire).

Second, regarding the holy catholic church (not the Roman Catholic church)--there ain't any such animal. There are only local congregations.

While I will disagree with you on the catholic part, the first part that you disagree with is actually an area of agreement. However, from my understanding this can be a mere translation error. The word used can be translated death, which is my preference.

The idea of him descending into hell, I agree, is repugnant.

 

[rsr]

First, I don't believe Jesus went to hell (hellfire).

I don't think those who originally formulated the creed did either; hell is Sheol or the grave. The purpose of this point is that Christ really, truly died, not where he might have gone. Thus modern versions say something like "he descended to the dead."

Second, regarding the holy catholic church (not the Roman Catholic church)--there ain't any such animal. There are only local congregations.

Well, can't help you with that one. Since I concede a universal church of some sort, it doesn't bother me.

 

[Ruiz]

The historical creeds of the Church are WAY more than simply what humans think about God. They are crucial, unifying documents that solidified orthodox Christian belief in a time before those things had been sorted out.

I would direct anyone who wants to know more about the history of the historical creeds to Mark Noll's excellent book, Turning Points. Noll is an evangelical scholar of the highest order, yet this book is accessible to any believer with questions.

There are those who say strange things like, "I have no creed but the Bible." Well, that in itself is a creed. Sing hymns or theological songs in Church? Those can be creeds as well.

I personally love the beautiful words to the Apostles' Creed.

I believe in the Holy Spirit,
The Holy Catholic Church,
The communion of saints,
The forgiveness of sins,
The resurrection of the body,
And the life everlasting.
Amen.

Though millions have said these words without knowing Christ, there is no reason to reject their power and truth.

This is a well thought out and communicated statement. I concur.

 

[rsr]

I once bought into the arguments against creeds, until I realized liberals hated them. Suddenly they didn't seem to bad. If they were agin' them, maybe they deserve a second look.

I too once abhorred creeds, until I began reading the old confessions. Our forebears got a lot of theology right, and expressed their beliefs well, and it seems to me to be presumptuous to toss out their well-expressed explication of Scripture as if it had no value to us today.

 

[Ruiz]

If we recall in church history, Baptists were always on the forefront of fostering good creeds and works to remember that helped remind us of God.

We were early adopters of using songs that was not the Psalter. Early Baptists defended this practice saying that it did not matter whether it came word-for-word from the Bible as long as it accurately reflected what it taught.

Most of the objections to creeds we read here were leveled against singing man made inventions we call hymns.

I think the same issue is at stake. If we cannot have creeds that are Biblical but not quotes from the Bible, then we cannot have worship songs for the same reason.

 

[go2church]

I have been taught that a creed is what you must believe and a confession is what you do believe. I prefer confessions, though the creeds can be useful as a guide to clarify.

 

[rsr]

I don't think you can draw a fine line between creeds and confessions; a creed (from the Latin credo, "I believe") is what you believe; a confession is what you publicly put forth as your beliefs. In English creed has generally been used to describe the ancient ecumenical statements of faith while confession generally has been used for documents that set forth different beliefs of sects and denominations (for lack of better words.)

A notable exception would come from the Baptists, of course. In 1679 a number of General Baptist congregrations published An Orthodox Creed or a Protestant Confession of Faith, which interchangeably uses both terms for the same thing. I suspect that confession was included in the title as a parallel to the other documents that preceded it — the Westminster Confession, the First and Second London confessions, etc. — and creed was chosen because the document was specifically designed to stress ecumenical orthodoxy (it formally endorsed the Apostles, Nicene and Athanasian creeds, for example) at a time many General Baptists were slipping into Unitarianism and other assorted heresies.

Simply put, a creed is a confession, and to make a huge difference of the terminology is to ignore history. At times confessions have been enforced strictly, and sometimes creeds have not been enforced at all.

 

[Alive in Christ]

A christian, with a good understanding of the scriptures, has absolutly no use whatsoever for creeds of any sort.



I grew up reciting the Apostles Creed all the time in our false church of Rome, and yet...

* I didnt know Jesus Christ from the man in the moon.

* I new nothing of scriptural truth

* I couldnt articulate the gospel to save my life.

*I thought people of other faiths (Muslim, Hari Krishna, etc) were surely saved.


On and on I went in my blindness.


Yet I recited the Apostles Creed every Sunday. :sleep:

 

[Alive in Christ]

JohnDeereFan...

"The creeds, confessions, and catechisms of Christianity are a crucial codification of our convictions and to cancel these criteria will clearly conclude with catastrophe.

Then how did the early church survive so wonderfully during all those long CENTURIES, before the 1st Creed came to be?

Why didnt the Christian community dissolve into a mass of superstition, myths and fables, magic, withcraft and all of the other false belief systems that were going on all over the place.

I mean, they didnt have an creeds keep them in line...

?????????


What DID they have, however? They had the Holy Spirit living in them and the testimony of the scriptures. The Old Testament truth and the writings of Paul, Peter, Mathew, Mark, Luke, John, etc etc.

We dont need creeds.

And I believe the creeds can be dangerous. They can create a false sense of being "right" with God.

A typical lost man can say...."Hey, what do you mean I need to be born again? I recite that creed thing with everybody else every sunday. What else do you want, buddy? Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get to the liquor store before in closes!

 

[jaigner]

And I believe the creeds can be dangerous. They can create a false sense of being "right" with God.

A typical lost man can say...."Hey, what do you mean I need to be born again? I recite that creed thing with everybody else every sunday. What else do you want, buddy? Now if you'll excuse me, I need to get to the liquor store before in closes!

Again, just because lost people recite creeds does not mean creeds are bad. Creeds are eternally significant because in those centuries you speak of, heresy had begun to run rampant. And I'm not talking about some disagreement about mode of baptism or whether to ordain women. I'm talking about trinitarian, Christological and soteriological heresy. That's what made the councils necessary and the reason creeds were hashed out.

Even if you don't like the historical creeds, everyone uses and subscribes to creeds, even overly-pithy statements like "The Bible says it, I believe it, and that settles it." Those sorts of statements are creeds to which some subscribe. Ever sing hymns? A mighty fortress is our God / a bulwark never failing. Believe that? That's a creed, too.

I would think that, now that you've come from darkness into light, the words of the Apostles' Creed would be especially significant, since you now know personally beyond a shadow of a doubt what it's talking about.

There is the power of uniting with others, and yes, there is a universal Church, and speaking these words in full affirmation of Christ and salvation.

 

[jaigner]

Alive,

You also quote John Calvin in your signature. If you've not read it, google the "Genevan Confession."

Calvin believed in creeds, too.

 

[Alive in Christ]

jaigner...


I'm not saying that creeds are evil, or bad, or useless. Obviously...if what is in the creed is true, then its not a bad thing. If a church wants to hang the apostles creed on the wall somewhere thats fine. Theres nothing wrong being taught in it.

But it does bug me to see them lifted up to some great level of importance...as if (((CREEDS))) are critical to the advancment of christianity, and we HAVE TO HAVE THEM!

No. We dont have to have them. We dont even need them. We have the scriptures and the Holy Spirit.

What good has the Apostles Creed done for the Church of Rome? Each century has brought the Catholic Church into an ever deeper depth of heresy, basphemy and hellish false teaching.