Cremation

[Jim1999]

They didn't have a shortage of land for burials in scripture days.

In Holland there is a ten year period after which the grave site is reused. They are running out of land. In England the land is quickly filling up as well. We have plenty of land in Canada, but the costs are outlandish. On cremation: there is an insurance policy which originally was less than $500.00 but it lasted a lifetime. The cost increase is the wooden box. They tried cardboard cartons, but disreputable dealers tried reusing them and the law changed. Did you know that basic cremation only burns the flesh and organs. The bones still need disposal apart from the basic cremation burn. Things may have changed on that, I will have to check it out.

Costs will vary from place to place, I am sure. Those funeral homes are in business too.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Jim1999]

Quick update:

Cremation is the process of reducing human remains to basic elements in the form of bone fragments through flame, heat, and vaporization.[1] Contrary to popular belief, the cremated remains are not ashes in the usual sense, but rather dried bone fragments that have been pulverized in a device called an electric cremated remains processor.

Cheers,,,,,,,,good old Wikipedia,

Jim

 

[Marcia]

Well, my only Biblical thought was that all of God's people were buried and not creamated, right? Are there any examples of a body being burned by one of God's people? I think it was only the pagans who cremated.

We're getting buried. That's our decision and we're sticking by it.

You're right - burning the body is pagan.

I am against cremation because it is willfully and deliberately destroying the body. Yes, the body will decay and all that, but that's a natural process. It just seems unbiblical to me to deliberately destroy the body.

 

[Palatka51]

You're right - burning the body is pagan.

I am against cremation because it is willfully and deliberately destroying the body. Yes, the body will decay and all that, but that's a natural process. It just seems unbiblical to me to deliberately destroy the body.

Flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God. This body is no more as we know it now once dead . We will be made new when Jesus calls us up. However this body is "put to rest" it will never be the same again. It's method of destruction does not matter.

 

[Marcia]

Actually, if one uses biblical principles, it does seem that cremation is not a good thing for a Christian to do. Burial is the biblical precedent, and cremation seems to be disrespecting the body. God created our bodies, and it is these same bodies that will be resurrected (transformed - bu the same body, as Jesus' was).

This is a serious decision and I urge people to consider some articles on why cremation may not be a good choice for a believer in Christ. At least read a few of these and think about it.

I recall that for several years as a believer, I thought I would be cremated. Then I read a really good article (can't recall where now) that convinced me not to do it.

Some would argue that it doesn’t matter in what way the body is put away at death. Such a position betrays a poor knowledge of the letter and the spirit of the Word of God. Isn’t the whole of Genesis 23 devoted to recording the death and burial of Sarah, Abraham’s wife? Is it not true that one half of Genesis 50 records Jacob’s death and burial? Did not God bury Moses? He could have disposed of the great patriarch in other ways (De. 34:5-8). A large and important place is given in the Bible to the way the bodies of the faithful are to be disposed of in death.

In Old Testament times, the sanctity of the body was carefully taught. God’s people were not to copy the customs of heathen nations by cutting, marking, or tattooing their bodies (De.14:1-2). This teaching of the sacredness of the body is carried into the New Testament and is enjoined upon Christians in various passages that declare our bodies belong to the Lord (I Co. 6:9-20; Ro. 6:13; 12:1.) Christian redemption not only concerns the soul, but the body as well. Self-ownership is a pagan concept, and we are not free to do with our bodies as we please, if we would do the will of God.

Although cremation can in no way effect the outcome of our resurrection, the practice is clearly not Christian. Rather than consenting to destroy God’s property in the oven of a crematory, Christians should affectionately lay away their loved ones in the earth, like the body of our Savior. His body was tenderly and lovingly prepared for burial according to the customs of God’s people (Jn.19:38-42).

Divine precept and example tells us that there is but one Christian way to dispose of our dead. Bury them.

Source
http://www.worldnewspaperpublishing.com/News/FullStory.asp?loc=TRW&ID=367

Also see
http://www.wholesomewords.org/etexts/freeman/pfcrem.html

http://www.mountainretreatorg.net/faq/cremation.html

http://stjohn.ny.goarch.org/vsItemD...9E7-399E-46A6-B1E12E083C295EA0&method=display

 

[Marcia]

Flesh and blood shall not inherit the kingdom of God. This body is no more as we know it now. We will be made now when Jesus calls us up. However this body is "put to rest" it will never be the same again. It's method of destruction does not matter.

It is our same body that is resurrected. Look at the articles I posted - at least one of them. Your body is not yours - it's God's.

Fire or burning the body was a pagan practice.

 

[Jim1999]

Oh right, the churches only burned heretics and witches at the stake. I guess we have to start digging caves and huge stones to roll in front of opening. That is Biblical!

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Bro. Curtis]

They didn't have a shortage of land for burials in scripture days.

In Holland there is a ten year period after which the grave site is reused. They are running out of land. In England the land is quickly filling up as well. We have plenty of land in Canada, but the costs are outlandish. On cremation: there is an insurance policy which originally was less than $500.00 but it lasted a lifetime. The cost increase is the wooden box. They tried cardboard cartons, but disreputable dealers tried reusing them and the law changed. Did you know that basic cremation only burns the flesh and organs. The bones still need disposal apart from the basic cremation burn. Things may have changed on that, I will have to check it out.

Costs will vary from place to place, I am sure. Those funeral homes are in business too.

Cheers,

Jim

I believe most modern cremations use a heat so intense the bones are reduced to ash in the oven.

 

[Jim1999]

so, it is now biblical: ashes to ashes, dust to dust, if the Lord doesn't get you, the devil must.............oops!

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Marcia]

I'm going by the Bible not what certain people did in history to heretics. That is irrelevant to this argument.

The bodily resurrection of Jesus sets Christianity apart from all other religions (except Judaism) in many ways and is a strong argument against cremation.

Gnostics believed the body was evil.

New Agers believe the body is temporary or is an illusion or is a mere container for the spirit/soul.

New Thought is similar to New Age (Christian Science, Unity, Church of Religious Science).

Other religions, such as Eastern religons, have no use for the body, either, believing it to be an illusion or merely transitory.

Only in Christianity (and Judaism) is the body seen as created by God and given respect as such. See Ps. 139. The NT tells us our body is the temple of the Holy Spirit.

Our body is not ours, it is God's; is it not?

The fact that the same body of Jesus that was buried was resurrected (he had the scars, remember?) shows how God regards our body. It will be raised and transformed, but it is the same body.

Despite accidents that may destroy the body at death, it does not seem right to deliberately destroy the body that God created from the womb.

I'm just asking you all to consider this view. Does it not make sense biblically?

 

[Jim1999]

This physical body of flesh and blood is nothing. The soul is what counts. We get a new body at resurrection and not this old body. The flesh begins to decay almost instantly. We are a long way removed from biblical ages regardless of religious system one quotes.

Don't forget to bury the same day as death if you really want to be biblical and no memorial service either.

Cheers,

Jim

 

[billwald]

Follow the money. "Christian" undertakers get rich off the poor people. I remember in the 1950's we would drive through poor towns in the south east in the summer. There would be one big building with a green lawn and a decent paint job - the funeral parlor. Everything else would be boards, dirt, and dust. At least that's the way I remember. Could be wrong . . . again.


Under Jewish rules the body has to be in the ground before sundown next day. No one gets rich off these rules. In the European ghettos there were Jewish burial societies to bury people, one person agreed to become unclean for the sake of the community and was paid a pittance for his taking this low position.

 

[drfuss]

This physical body of flesh and blood is nothing. The soul is what counts. We get a new body at resurrection and not this old body. The flesh begins to decay almost instantly. We are a long way removed from biblical ages regardless of religious system one quotes.

Don't forget to bury the same day as death if you really want to be biblical and no memorial service either.

Cheers,

Jim

drfuss: In the Scriptures, I think the burying requirement was for prevention of disease reasons.

We creamated both of my wife's parents at their request. We had a Celebration of Life service with a life size picture of them in the front of the church. For us, it was much better to have a picture of them when they were alive, than have a dead body and a casket. They had been creamated a few days before the services. My wife's mother died on a Sunday and we had the Celebration of Life service on the next Saturday making it convenient for more people to attend, rather than have to take off work.

We later scattered their ashes in the out of state community where they were born. We both plan to be creamated. My parents have been dead and buried for over 20 years and none of the family has later visited their graves, because we saw no need to. They were not there.

 

[chuck2336]

I know the Bible doesn't speak against cremation, but does the fact that no where in Scripture were bodies burned in the Old OR New Testament something to consider? I know that bones were burned but I don't see that as cremation. I don't know. Again, I don't think there's anything necessarily wrong with it but if it were not done in any of the Bible by the Israelites or the New Testament church, when did it become more commonplace amongst believers? Just wondering.

Does the Bible mention anything about sailing for pleasure? Sure boats were used for fishing and transportation, but I do not know of any reference to using a boat for pleasure, surely this means sailing is wrong.

Just a quick note, the ONLY reason I used the above quote is because in other threads (I think) this sweet lady has mentioned having a sailboat. I agree with my sister here on that I don’t think there is anything necessarily wrong with cremation, AND I agree with her that this is an issue that we as believers need to consider completly. However, I am not sure that just because the Bible does not mention it means that it must be a sin is good doctrine either.

We all are called upon to be discerners of what is good and evil by the leading of the Holy Spirit. I think sometimes we as Christians use our taste in something and not God's leading to determine what is good or not. For example, look at all the threads about Christian music, almost to the post you can determine that those who like modern styles of music enjoy Contemporary Christian Music, those who do not think it is of satan.

I think cremation is fine, I think digging a hole is fine. I told my wife to bury me at Wal-mart, that way I know she will be in to see me at least three times a week! :tongue3:

Again I meant no offense in using this quote or mentioning sailing I was just trying to make a point.

 

[annsni]

Does the Bible mention anything about sailing for pleasure? Sure boats were used for fishing and transportation, but I do not know of any reference to using a boat for pleasure, surely this means sailing is wrong.

Just a quick note, the ONLY reason I used the above quote is because in other threads (I think) this sweet lady has mentioned having a sailboat. I agree with my sister here on that I don’t think there is anything necessarily wrong with cremation, AND I agree with her that this is an issue that we as believers need to consider completly. However, I am not sure that just because the Bible does not mention it means that it must be a sin is good doctrine either.

We all are called upon to be discerners of what is good and evil by the leading of the Holy Spirit. I think sometimes we as Christians use our taste in something and not God's leading to determine what is good or not. For example, look at all the threads about Christian music, almost to the post you can determine that those who like modern styles of music enjoy Contemporary Christian Music, those who do not think it is of satan.

I think cremation is fine, I think digging a hole is fine. I told my wife to bury me at Wal-mart, that way I know she will be in to see me at least three times a week! :tongue3:

Again I meant no offense in using this quote or mentioning sailing I was just trying to make a point.

Ummm - You're so not a sailor otherwise you'd KNOW that they used those boats for pleasure too.

I just think that, since cremation WAS around at the time of the history of Scriptures, and apparently other groups used it to take care of their dead, that it would atleast come in somewhere in Scripture. I know it's not spoken of negatively but certainly not one of God's people were cremated. I just think it's interesting to note that no one was cremated in the Bible even though it was available to them. If there was even a case of a person dying and possibly the body being desecrated, it was usually taken with them when they left, if I remember correctly. Although I guess that would take some time to fully burn a body. Hmmmm....

 

[Marcia]

This physical body of flesh and blood is nothing. The soul is what counts.

That's not true, Jim. This sounds so gnostic! God created your body, did he not?

We get a new body at resurrection and not this old body.

So the resurrected body of Jesus was not the same body he lived in? You know that's wrong. He showed the scars. Resurrection means a resurrection of the same body. It's new in the sense that it's transformed and glorified, but it's the same body.

 

[Marcia]

I'm coming to the conclusion that no one read any of the articles I posted or even seriously considered my points.

 

[Jim1999]

There is no sex in heaven!!!! How can it be the same body? We are neither married nor given in marriage................there is neither male nor female.............

This earthly body is temporary at best, It begins to decay and rot almost instantly upon death. The resurrection of Jesus was different and He was raised with earthly identifying marks for a purpose. His ascension into heaven was later and it will be pure speculation as to how we will see Him seated at te right hand of God......We have no clue as to how God will appear or the Holy Spirit!

Cheers,

Jim

 

[Marcia]

There is no sex in heaven!!!! How can it be the same body? We are neither married nor given in marriage................there is neither male nor female.............

This earthly body is temporary at best, It begins to decay and rot almost instantly upon death. The resurrection of Jesus was different and He was raised with earthly identifying marks for a purpose. His ascension into heaven was later and it will be pure speculation as to how we will see Him seated at te right hand of God......We have no clue as to how God will appear or the Holy Spirit!

Cheers,

Jim

Jim, are you saying Jesus is not the "firstfruits" of our resurrection? The Bible tells us He is.

I can't believe you don't believe our same bodies will be our resurrected bodies. In that case, there is no bodily resurrection. We are just given new bodies. This is not biblical belief.

 

[Marcia]

The Bible tells us the dead are raised. This does not mean our soul (unless you believe in soul sleep, which I doubt you do), but our bodies.

The Bible tells us there is a resurrection of our bodies. Resurrection by definition means the same body being raised. Of course, it will also be transformed and glorified, as the body of Jesus was.