Crystal Cathedral et al

[Johnv]

Originally posted by aefting:
I think the question we need to answer is, How can one corrupt the gospel so that it isn't the gospel any more (as per Gal. 1:6-7)?

I think we have about 2500 threads that deal with that very subject

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Johnv:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by aefting:
John, Paul says in Gal. 1:8, "But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed."

Do you think that statement applies to any modern day religious leaders? If not Schuller, then who?

If you apply that in the manner you're suggesting, then every time a preacher said something that I disagreed with, then I'd have to call him accursed. That would include my own pastor, and like yours as well. If you agree with your pastor all the time, there's a problem. If you think your pastor is right all the time, there's definitely a problem. </font>[/QUOTE]JohnV, "another gospel" is not a matter of just disagreement over certain points, but is a false teaching that changes the message of the gospel. You pointed out how Gal 1.8 specifically deals with the Judaiziers, but we are also warned many times against false teachings elsewhere in the NT, by Jesus and by NT writers. Paul, in Acts 20, said that false teachers would arise from within the church and lead many astray. 1 Timothy talks about those surrounding themselves with teachers who "tickle" their ears. When the gospel is perverted, we should be able to tell it because it no longer matches the gospel of the Bible. We are to denouce teachings that go against the Bible; we are to "contend for the faith."

Surely you agree that we can discern false teachings that change or pervert the gospel when we have the standard of God's word as the measure?

If someone denies that we are sinful or that we need redemption because of sin, or that we need a Savior, then that is another gospel. It seems Schuller falls into this category where there are statements on record that he does not believe we need redemption from sin and that other beliefs are okay.

No matter how many good works his church does, if the gospel is not being preached, it is not the gospel.

 

[A_Christian]

My problem with this man and his ministry is that he has invited people to speak from his platform who were not Christians. He has had a "New Age" "guests" and at least one Mormon "guest" as special speakers.
This is TOTALLY contrary to anything the Bible teaches.

 

[bjonson]

johnv,

What church do you attend? Are you Baptist? Frankly, your unwillingness to acknowledge the heresy of Robert Schuller's beliefs is apalling.

I posted several direct quotes from one of his books on the PDL thread. Did you read it? Please comment, using his own words, on why you consider him a fellow-laborer for THE FAITH that was delivered to us, especially in light of the fact that he denies sin and hell.

I'm out of town a few days but will look forward to your response.

Do you believe anyone is an apostate today? If you don't recognize Schuller as one, then you are deficient in discernment or don't know God's word well enough to defend it. I know that is a bold statement but it is true, as any discerning Christian who recognizes Schuller's errors would attest.

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by A_Christian:
My problem with this man and his ministry is that he has invited people to speak from his platform who were not Christians.

Not quite. He's had non-Christians as pulpit guests, but not as speakers. Big difference. I've never seen a non-Christian give the morning message. However, if a non-CHristian had given the morning message, I'd be in agreement with you.

[ August 09, 2004, 05:20 PM: Message edited by: Johnv ]

 

[Johnv]

Originally posted by bjonson:
What church do you attend?

I've learned the hard way that giving to much personal information out on the board is not a good idea. The specific church I attend is no one's business. However, it's an SBC church in the Southern California area.

Are you Baptist?

Yes, SBC.

Frankly, your unwillingness to acknowledge the heresy of Robert Schuller's beliefs is apalling.

You're entitled to your $.02. So am I. It has nothing to do with my church affiliation, my faith in Christ, or my salvific state. I certainly hope that you aren't questioning my salvation.

I posted several direct quotes from one of his books on the PDL thread. Did you read it?

Yes.

Please comment, using his own words, on why you consider him a fellow-laborer for THE FAITH that was delivered to us, especially in light of the fact that he denies sin and hell.

No thanks. IMO, you're not looking for a healthy discussion. You're looking to get me to change my mind and agree with you.

Do you believe anyone is an apostate today?

Yeah, there's a few, like Beny Hinn and Robert Tilton, for example.

If you don't recognize Schuller as one, then you are deficient in discernment or don't know God's word well enough to defend it. I know that is a bold statement but it is true, as any discerning Christian who recognizes Schuller's errors would attest.

Sad for you that you paint anyone who disagrees with you with such a broad brush over one issue.

 

[Carolyn Dee]

My husband and I were "fans" of Schuller for an embarassing amount of time and we now have nothing to do with him. Because others have done well in exposing his false doctrine, I need not belabor Schuller's many low points. I met him twice and he is quite the charmer...but run away, avoid, flee to the hills...stay away from his theology! Ack!

 

[bjonson]

johnv

If you are unwilling to discuss Schuller's actual quotes, then I will conclude you are not interested in a serious discussion on this issue.

I asked about your church affiliation because the church we attend sometimes (should) reveal some important things about us. No personal probing was intended.

Johnv, I won't discuss this subject with you because it is one-sided. I tried to provide direct quotes and firm evidence and you aren't interested.

 

[Carolyn Dee]

Robert Schuller is simply not an acceptable preacher of the Word. He has said "The Bible is like a fish, it is full of bones" (figure that one out!). A preacher once heard Schuller say "I am not a sinner" and I have read in one of his books that he thinks that witnessing door to door that Christians do is an "affront" to God. Schuller said it is awful to tell people that they are sinners !!! He defines "sin" not as unrighteousness but as low-self esteem . My eyes and ears once heard him actually quote Ephesians 2:8-9 but he looked as though he was sucking on a lemon when he said it. He seldom, if ever, holds a Bible during his broadcasts.

Nope...I do not recommend or commend this man.