Cults that are leading Christians away from the faith

[BobRyan]

Yes I found that in Acts 21:9 -- how "awful"??

And then again - we see that idea about prophecy itself in 2Peter 1:21. (so they even got to Peter on that heresy!!??)

Just awful I tell you. Lets tell someone.

Imagine such a thing as listening to a prophet???!! (gasp!).

When you could have Papal torture and murder of Christians that dissent from his decree - as the "milder" form. Plus some making up things like "Purgatory" and "Mary sinless like Christ" etc.

But to actually "listen" to Prophets?? As we find in 1Cor 14??? How "awful"!!

In Christ,

Bob

 

[John Gilmore]

Yes, most cults teach the insufficiency of scripture. One must follow the teachings of the cult leader or prophet (e.g., Joseph Smith, Ellen White, the Pope, etc.).

 

[Justified Saint]

Or Luther, Calvin, or Billy Graham, and other people who invent doctrines like sola scriptura, osas, altar calls, prayers that save you, the rapture(talk about a fanciful imagination).

 

[Singer]

Romans 14:13 Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve
this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother's way.


Diane gave us that verse that DOES say alot. This topic has been the plague of
my inquisition for 40 years. It is what has kept me from joining a church. We've
frequented certain ones for many years; only to wonder about the teachings of
others. According to the info here, I was raised in a cult, worhsipped in a different
cult and are trying to be impressed by other cults.

Look at above verse and it appears that if we try to discourage another from staying
in his chosen denomination; that causes us to be his stumbling block. So if our
children are swayed to the Moonies or the JW's, and we attempt to stop them.......
are we then judging them wrongfully and causing them to fall...?

That's what it impliles.

Or should we only discourage them from following those who do not adhere to
"Any Denomination that doesn't go along with Mainstream Christianity".

Now we're back to where we started again with the realization that there are

NO PAT ANSWERS !!!!

 

[Me2]

Theres is sort of a beginning...

its identifying the spirits within the believer

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:
1Jo 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that [spirit] of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.
2Jo 1:8 Look to yourselves, that we lose not those things which we have wrought, but that we receive a full reward.
2Jo 1:9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.
2Jo 1:10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into [your] house, neither bid him God speed:
2Jo 1:11 For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.

the doctrine of Christ begins with the belief that His spirit is within YOUR flesh.

Col 1:26 [Even] the mystery which hath been hid from ages and from generations, but now is made manifest to his saints:
Col 1:27 To whom God would make known what [is] the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:
Col 1:28 Whom we preach, warning every man, and teaching every man in all wisdom; that we may present every man perfect in Christ Jesus:

I think the evidence of ones confession that Jesus Christ is in their flesh should suffice our curiousities seeing that the evidence falls under all three catagories previously mentioned.
God ,Jesus , and salvation.

Beyond that it is the responsibility of their master whether they stand or fall.

Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day [alike]. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

 

[Singer]

Thanks for the scripture, Me2.

This should tell us something..:

1Jo 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh is of God:

Although I can agree with the Jesus is God theory, it was always hard for me
to understand that I HAVE to believe that it was God in the flesh on earth
in the form of Jesus......before I could be saved / forgiven.

This verse tells me that we are only to believe/confess that Jesus is come in the
flesh....not God. That falls in line with Jo 6:29 that I keep bringing up This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he has sent. This verse does not
ask us to believe that Jesus was God either.

I 2x2 organization I was brought up in does not adhere to the Trinity teachings; along
with the advice on here so far, they are not a cult and to discourage someone to join them or leave them would be causing them to fall. Am I correct...?

 

[John Gilmore]

Definition of a cult: Any so-called Christian group that does not believe in the Trinity:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Tim. 3:16

 

[BobRyan]

Although that Trinity requirement does not cross my line - so I could easily sign on to it - the problem is - it makes all Bible believing Jews "a cult" EVEN in the days of Christ.

The ONE true church started by God at Sinai - would be classed "a cult".

So where did that "rule" come from?

In Christ,

Bob

 

[BobRyan]

Yes, most cults teach the insufficiency of scripture. One must follow the teachings of the cult leader or prophet

This thinly disguised attack on the NT church in the first century is somewhat shallow in content.

I would argue that the NT saints DID accept the "sufficiency of scripture" AND that following the doctrine of 1Cor 14 did not "require" that they "Believe in the insufficiency of scripture" as some on this board teach.

In Christ,

Bob

 

[Singer]

(J.Gilmore)

Definition of a cult: Any so-called Christian group that does not believe in the Trinity

(Singer)

As for myself, I was surprised to hear that it is necessary to believe in the Trinity
before salvation can take place. And here I was; all these years, claiming salvation on the basis of my faith in the risen saviour who gave himself for me.

How is that......... that ye believe on him whom he has sent...?

I can't imagine that I was only fooling myself for 25 years and that salvation only
became actual when I realized that Jesus must be God........or is He ?

NO PAT ANSWERS !!

That doesn't say anything about a Trinity.

 

[John Gilmore]

Only Christ, true God and true man, has made satification for all sins. Those who trust in a false Christ of their own imagination are not saved.

 

[Me2]

Singer,

All Christian religion..orthodox as well as cults teach error in their doctrines to some degree.

If One has actually received the spirit of Jesus. It is relative at any given point of What the believer understands as to the realization of Who Jesus is to them.

babies accept the concept of Jesus dying on the cross for them.
children understand Jesus has been risen from death and become their Christ.
Young men believe that the spirit is within them and that they themselves have been resurrected from death. and Jesus is Lord.
Fathers believer Jesus Is God and his nature is and always has been Love.


1Jo 2:12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name's sake.
1Jo 2:13 I write unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I write unto you, young men, because ye have overcome the wicked one. I write unto you, little children, because ye have known the Father.
1Jo 2:14 I have written unto you, fathers, because ye have known him [that is] from the beginning. I have written unto you, young men, because ye are strong, and the word of God abideth in you, and ye have overcome the wicked one.


notice young men..and the desciptor of overcome..

(hint hint hint.) Johns letters in revelations speak of overcoming also. between the child stage and young man stage.

the believer in the child stage accepts and comprehends that Jesus is their Christ ONLY. Not Lord.

Yet the believers faith in the Young man stage has been tested and successfully passed the Holy Spirits trials. They believe that they themselves have Christ Spirit WITHIN them. that they themselves have been resurrected from the dead. and can confess with their SPIRITUAL TONGUES that Jesus is Lord.

there are many stages where the truths of Jesus is relative to the believers comprehension and understanding in their Faith. Its progressive.

You could take each verse in the NT as it refers to accepting Jesus and being saved and you will find an audience that the message is being directed towards.
(although most of the new testament is focused in the changes that occur between the obedient child, the disobedient child, and young man stages.)

I dont focus in life as to the cults that exclude Jesus as christ or even Lord.

I am more mystified by the disparity within the orthodox christian religions that dont comprehend or nullify the process of sanctification and the similarities of All believers learning the same lessons in the same order.

why so much attention to the error in cults?

Has error (even) in the orthodox churches disallowed its followers to become blinded to this process?. for 2000 years?....

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by John Gilmore:
Definition of a cult: Any so-called Christian group that does not believe in the Trinity:

And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. 1 Tim. 3:16

How anyone can believe in one God and still believe in the Trinity, which you say is made up of three persons, is beyond me.

God, as a Spirit, came to Earth, by taking on a robe of flesh, died, and was received up into glory.... is only ONE GOD!...not three persons.

Still can't figure you all out.

MEE

<-----Non-cult...pure Christian

 

[Singer]

Thanks, Me2, that was a good post. Much truth to the fact that many of various
ages do not have a concept of even who Jesus is...let alone more.

And MEE, lets discuss your comment a little..:

God, as a Spirit, came to Earth, by taking on a robe of flesh, died, and was
received up into glory.... is only ONE GOD!...not three persons.

You evidently don't believe the Trinity as you say, but yet you say God
came to Earth in a robe of flesh, died etc. You just admitted that Jesus
is God. But the non trinitarians say he was NOT God; that he was only
God's Son. Usually a person who says that Jesus is God is a Trinitarian
in my book. That's a whole new concept that you have...new to me at
least. I'm saying that I was saved according to evangelical tradition 25
years before I realized he is/was God. I think someone believes I was
not actually saved until I came to that concept as of recent. (Except for
the Catholics that is, who don't credit me with salvation at all because
I'm an incomplete christian)

 

[John Gilmore]

Originally posted by Singer:
Thanks, Me2, that was a good post. Much truth to the fact that many of various ages do not have a concept of even who Jesus is...let alone more.

And MEE, lets discuss your comment a little..:

God, as a Spirit, came to Earth, by taking on a robe of flesh, died, and was
received up into glory.... is only ONE GOD!...not three persons.

You evidently don't believe the Trinity as you say, but yet you say God came to Earth in a robe of flesh, died etc. You just admitted that Jesus
is God. But the non trinitarians say he was NOT God; that he was only God's Son. Usually a person who says that Jesus is God is a Trinitarian
in my book. That's a whole new concept that you have...

Gnostic Unitarianism? The moderator should rename this the "Christian/Pagan DEBATE Forum."

 

[Me2]

John,

Christian cults have one thing going for it that Im beliving to be error taught.

they dont believe that the spirit of Christ is within them.

2Jo 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh. This is a deceiver and an antichrist.


Is the SPIRIT OF CHRIST WITHIN YOU.
IN YOUR VERY FLESH AT THIS VERY MOMENT.

and if you were to agree that you have received this new spirit in your flesh. If you "sin" will It just..poof.. Go away. and you become no longer "saved".

meaning once a believer is saved. that the possibility of being no longer saved exists.
(as in someone not believing OSAS.)

(another thing I believe christian cults exibit.
or is that error taught within orthodox christian religions. I get'um mixed up sometimes.)

anyway thanks for you opinion.

Me2

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by Singer:


....MEE, lets discuss your comment a little..:

God, as a Spirit, came to Earth, by taking on a robe of flesh, died, and was
received up into glory.... is only ONE GOD!...not three persons.

You evidently don't believe the Trinity as you say, but yet you say God
came to Earth in a robe of flesh, died etc. You just admitted that Jesus
is God. But the non trinitarians say he was NOT God; that he was only
God's Son. Usually a person who says that Jesus is God is a Trinitarian
in my book. That's a whole new concept that you have...new to me at
least.

** OK Singer, let's try to see if I have this correct. OK?

As far as I can comprehend, the definition of the Trinity is that there are "three persons" that are supposed to make up one God. I think believers of the Trinity feel that Jesus [second person] was sent in place of God [first person] to die for the sins of the world. Then somewhere they say that the Holy Spirit is the [third person]....not sure how that works.

I think when all is said and done that Trinitarians call all three of their persons "GOD." This must be why they say God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Ghost. I'm still trying to figure it out...but I think the above is what they believe. Not sure!


I've never heard where a non-trinitarian says that Jesus is not God. That is a new one for me.

As far as I'm concerned, God came to Earth in the form of man, died for our sins, and is the 'ONLY' God that exists. He did it all! Keep in mind that God, before becoming a man, didn't have 'blood' to shed for the remission of our sins. When the Bible says that God sent His son, it means, He sent His 'FLESH' to die for our sins....not His 'little boy.' I don't mean to be sarcastic... it's the only way I know how to explain what I mean.


MEE

 

[Spirit and Truth]

This was the original link that I posted at the start of this topic:

http://www.seekgod.ca

Here is another interesting site that deals with cults:

http://www.isitso.org/guide/guide.html

 

[Donbam]

The problem with this first "apologetic" site, is that it's not apologetic at all. It's full of venom and hatred for anyone who does not agree with this woman's theology.

If you are going to defend the faith, then defend it. This site and woman digs into people's personal backgrounds, revels and posts e-mail's of people that dis-agree with her to belittle them in a public forum, and all with the permission of her husband.

The site is actually a gossip site.

As a Messianic Jew, I am involved with one of the ministries mentioned on the site, and have been for well over ten years.

Not once, has this person ever contacted the ministry or those in leadership to discuss anything at all.

Despite the fact that she denies that she is teaching anyone, the fact is just the opposite.

The second site that is mentioned is at least more balanced. I don't have a problem with the fact that they don't agree with Messianic Judaism.

There are offshoots of the movement that I don't agree with either. It's up to me to walk out my own salvation with Yeshua, with fear and trembling, not to gossip and degrade others with an evil speaking tounge.

I enjoy a good apologetic site, but I would suggest that people be discerning of the spirit behind them when visiting.

Shalom,

Donbam

 

[Singer]

Dear ME,

I will not post on this board. I will not post on this board. I will not post on this board.
I will not post on this board. I will not post on this board. I will not post on this board.
I will not post on this board. I will not post on this board. I will not post on this board.

Okay....one more screwup and I resign. !!

This Religionaholic is getting nowhere, and I am getting very short time here, but
I don't feel the guy who believes that God is One God or the guy who believes that
The Three are One God are in any disagreement. After all, it was God who chose
to come up with a Jesus and a Holy Spirit to whom He referred to as "HE". Jesus
said "I will not leave you, I will come unto you". (Meaning the Holy Spirit would come).
Then Jesus referred to the H.S. as "He". God talked about Jesus and Jesus talked about
God and the Holy Spirit and I don't think they were contradicting anything.

One in Three, Three in One, One God............what's the difference?

It isn't crucial to our salvation to figure it all out, ME. Thank God for that.
Or thank Jesus, or is it the Holy Spirit we can thank??

)

)

Eccl 2:24 "There is nothing better for a man, than that he should eat and
drink, and that he should make his soul enjoy good in his labour"

This poster is soon going to resort to follow the above verse and as all
else in Ecclesiastes, Religion Debate is futile, vanity and vexation also.

I am not in a cult, I am not being led away from my faith and I am glad to
have found the vanity in it all by being a part of this.
Thanks, Singer