Cultural Engagement: Every Christian's Obligation

[Aaron]

Iconoclast, can you sum it up in 10 sentences?

While the Puritans were noble in many ways, they also failed to denounce slavery. They had a tendency to fall into a Galatian trap where law became the means of maintaining their salvation. This would have been anathema to the Apostle Paul.
Finally, manifest destiny is a godless theory.

And here ya go. "Engaging the Culture" is just Newspeak for activism and judging the Elect by the world's fluid standards. Racism now is the unforgiveable sin. Soon it will be homophobia, and the church, as it has begun to do, will fall all over itself apologizing for its misunderstanding of 'gender dysphoria' and other first-world maladies. Loving thy neighbor will be about understanding and accommodating their special needs to follow little girls into the public restrooms.

 

[Aaron]

Cultural Engagement: Every Christian's Obligation

This is a bunch of baloney. I've heard zealous neophyte pastoral candidates use this [snip] to turn the church into their resource and staff for programs and activism.

We do not "engage" the culture. We engage individuals. And our first obligation is to Christ and to His body, the church, to the widows and to the orphans, and to the poor of this world.

 

[AustinC]

And here ya go. "Engaging the Culture" is just Newspeak for activism and judging the Elect by the world's fluid standards. Racism now is the unforgiveable sin. Soon it will be homophobia, and the church, as it has begun to do, will fall all over itself apologizing for its misunderstanding of 'gender dysphoria' and other first-world maladies. Loving thy neighbor will be about understanding and accommodating their special needs to follow little girls into the public restrooms.

Where did I used the term "engaging the culture?"
What I said is that the tendency to live by law rather than grace was also true for the puritans. I denounced manifest destiny as a false understanding of God's covenant with the church so that obliteration of other cultures could be justified...just as Christians used the Bible to justify having slaves.

 

[Iconoclast]

And here ya go. "Engaging the Culture" is just Newspeak for activism and judging the Elect by the world's fluid standards. Racism now is the unforgiveable sin. Soon it will be homophobia, and the church, as it has begun to do, will fall all over itself apologizing for its misunderstanding of 'gender dysphoria' and other first-world maladies. Loving thy neighbor will be about understanding and accommodating their special needs to follow little girls into the public restrooms.

We in North America live in an increasingly Canaanite culture. What do you think would happen if God were to directly appoint an evangelical Christian to become a head of state either in Canada or the United States? I would submit: not much. The morality of the law reflects the morality of the culture.
Our culture needs a revival, a turning to Jesus Christ as King, a writing of the Law upon our hearts, before the Law could be implemented full scale.

Upon our culture’s heart is written the law of Darwin, greed, Hollywood, immorality, and murder.
God’s enemies do not slack when it comes to evangelism and culture-making. In fact, as Voddie Baucham says, we give our sons and daughters to Jericho central school and are then surprised when they come out as Canaanites. There is much work to be done before Canaan can be called Israel.

You see, the church has largely retreated from speaking into culture, politics, economics, etc. Large portions of the church have truncated the Gospel to a “pie in the sky, say a prayer before I die” message.

In other words, Christianity is reduced to saying a prayer and then looking forward to a better life in heaven (hopefully sooner rather than later). This has resulted in a large portion of the church that has no idea how to handle these spheres of culture from a Biblical worldview. We do not have enough faithful Christians prepared to engage or hold any cultural space; the same space which we have been gradually handing over to the unbeliever. We have few Christians to speak into a Godless culture because they have either handed the culture over to them completely waiting for a rapture or have decided that everyone should have a voice at the table of (some sort of) common grace. We have developed excuses in order that we might keep God’s Law-Word within the confines of the church walls.

 

[Iconoclast]

The west was never in covenant with God. The US never had a covenant with God.

The chosen and elect children of God, everywhere on earth, have a covenant with God, but no earthly nations have covenant with God.

amos3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

but then again, here is another "nation" being spoken of:
mt21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The Elect church is the holy nation

 

[Iconoclast]

This is a bunch of baloney. I've heard zealous neophyte pastoral candidates use this [snip] to turn the church into their resource and staff for programs and activism.

We do not "engage" the culture. We engage individuals. And our first obligation is to Christ and to His body, the church, to the widows and to the orphans, and to the poor of this world.

So...do you advocate world flight?

 

[JonC]

We in North America live in an increasingly Canaanite culture. What do you think would happen if God were to directly appoint an evangelical Christian to become a head of state either in Canada or the United States? I would submit: not much. The morality of the law reflects the morality of the culture.
Our culture needs a revival, a turning to Jesus Christ as King, a writing of the Law upon our hearts, before the Law could be implemented full scale.

Upon our culture’s heart is written the law of Darwin, greed, Hollywood, immorality, and murder.
God’s enemies do not slack when it comes to evangelism and culture-making. In fact, as Voddie Baucham says, we give our sons and daughters to Jericho central school and are then surprised when they come out as Canaanites. There is much work to be done before Canaan can be called Israel.

You see, the church has largely retreated from speaking into culture, politics, economics, etc. Large portions of the church have truncated the Gospel to a “pie in the sky, say a prayer before I die” message.

In other words, Christianity is reduced to saying a prayer and then looking forward to a better life in heaven (hopefully sooner rather than later). This has resulted in a large portion of the church that has no idea how to handle these spheres of culture from a Biblical worldview. We do not have enough faithful Christians prepared to engage or hold any cultural space; the same space which we have been gradually handing over to the unbeliever. We have few Christians to speak into a Godless culture because they have either handed the culture over to them completely waiting for a rapture or have decided that everyone should have a voice at the table of (some sort of) common grace. We have developed excuses in order that we might keep God’s Law-Word within the confines of the church walls.

I do not know that this part - "You see, the church has largely retreated from speaking into culture, politics, economics, etc. Large portions of the church have truncated the Gospel to a 'pie in the sky, say a prayer before I die” message.' In other words, Christianity is reduced to saying a prayer and then looking forward to a better life in heaven (hopefully sooner rather than later)." - is correct.

From what I have seen the Church needs more prayer and less speaking into culture. The past election solidified this in my mind. Churches took sides - either Democrat or Republican, rarely choosing Christ and God's Kingdom.

 

[Iconoclast]

I do not know that this part - "You see, the church has largely retreated from speaking into culture, politics, economics, etc. Large portions of the church have truncated the Gospel to a 'pie in the sky, say a prayer before I die” message.' In other words, Christianity is reduced to saying a prayer and then looking forward to a better life in heaven (hopefully sooner rather than later)." - is correct.

From what I have seen the Church needs more prayer and less speaking into culture. The past election solidified this in my mind. Churches took sides - either Democrat or Republican, rarely choosing Christ and God's Kingdom.

In other words, Christianity is reduced to saying a prayer and then looking forward to a better life in heaven (hopefully sooner rather than later).THIS???

rarely choosing Christ and God's Kingdom[/QUOTE]

What would that look like??/

 

[JonC]

In other words, Christianity is reduced to saying a prayer and then looking forward to a better life in heaven (hopefully sooner rather than later).THIS???

I think both positions (the Church speaking into the culture and just saying a prayer looking forward to a better life in heaven) are incorrect.

As your earlier article noted, eschatology plays a big part in how we see the Church in relation to the World.

I believe no secular culture is benign, but is in fact a manifestation of the world (with the exception of the culture of Christ....I e , the love of the Brethren for God and man).

So in the present I believe Christians are to pray, uplift one another, evangelize, and progressively grow into the image of Christ as individuals. We are not saving the World by cultural, political, or moral transformation but by God in us drawing men out of the World and to Himself.

So yes, we do look for a better future when Earth is remade, but our time here is not just waiting. We are living in the Kingdom now.

Of course, that is dependent on my very lightly held eschatology. If a Christian views this new heaven and new earth as coming progressively...like the kingdom is here and will grow until the earth is renewed...then our task is to transform worldly systems.

And that is a legitimate view which was very popular in the Church until the disillusionment of WW2. I just hold a different (but not immovable) position.

 

[Aaron]

So...do you advocate world flight?

No, I just reject idiom "engage the culture." Because when we live godly, we are engaging the culture. There's no not doing it.

When people talk about engaging the culture they're talking about a sort of spiritual activism; about going out and being seen and heard like ad hoc committees and thinking that this is the thing we're called to.

That is not our duty. Our duty is as I stated above.

Another thing is, that this is really kind of a Western thing, where people by and large have a wide latitude of religious liberty.

The underground church in China engages the CCP by just being. They want to live in peace. The CCP won't let them, and it persecutes them. The churches have secret meetings. Have they abdicated their obligation?

Every Christian's obligation is to offer their bodies a living sacrifice, meaning living holy and godly lives. That is every Christian's obligation.

 

[Salty]

Six hour warning
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[Iconoclast]

No, I just reject idiom "engage the culture." Because when we live godly, we are engaging the culture. There's no not doing it.

When people talk about engaging the culture they're talking about a sort of spiritual activism; about going out and being seen and heard like ad hoc committees and thinking that this is the thing we're called to.

That is not our duty. Our duty is as I stated above.

Another thing is, that this is really kind of a Western thing, where people by and large have a wide latitude of religious liberty.

The underground church in China engages the CCP by just being. They want to live in peace. The CCP won't let them, and it persecutes them. The churches have secret meetings. Have they abdicated their obligation?

Every Christian's obligation is to offer their bodies a living sacrifice, meaning living holy and godly lives. That is every Christian's obligation.

I understand what you are saying.
I do not think they are using the term in a light hearted way...or in a liberal social kind of thing.
I have more I have to uncover here as I had rejected a form of this years ago.
It is deeper than the superficial look I saw years ago.

 

[AustinC]

amos3:2 You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.

but then again, here is another "nation" being spoken of:
mt21:43 Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.

The Elect church is the holy nation

The elect are a part of the Kingdom of God. We are aliens and exiles in this land of rebels against our King. Our task is to be ambassadors of reconciliation, calling rebels to put down their arms and reconcile with God.

 

[Salty]

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