Current Opinions of LBU and Trinity

[labaptist]

I'm enrolled in the Master of Ministry program at the seminary of LBU. Lots of reading and writing. Seems much harder than the Bachelors at Andersonville was, though I have friends getting their Masters from Andersonville and their workload seems about the same.

 

[Peter James]

I am a seminarian drop out.

I've realized seminary is not for me. I have attended onlnine both Luther Rice University and Trinity College of the Bible and Theological Seminary.

I would not recommend Trinity; the information in the courses could be expanded upon ad ifinitum for free on the internet in much longer courses. You are also nickel and dimed to death with withdraw fees, student service fees, and the moment you sign on the dotted line for a degree, there's no getting out of the 'contract' that you signed. If you ask for financial mercy, none will be given to you. That is not necessarily a bad thing as an unaccredited institution offering education at a low rate need to continue to exist somehow. But if you are going to go unaccredited, you might as well just take the millions of free courses out there that is available.

I like Luther Rice Seminary, but I couldn't tell sometimes if the 'master's level courses actually had bachelor's level content. I picked up on certain cues from the courses that made it seem so. (Like, you should read this section in your notebook to be ready for next week when that section of the textbook was not the graduate level textbook, etc.)

Ultimately, I don't want to write papers, book summaries, and be expected to read a whole bunch of books in a certain amount of time, especially since I don't like reading theology books fast.

If I go back to seminary, it will have to be in residence which I doubt would ever happen. I can tell there is something to be said about being in residency.

I know I am surprised that I am even saying that, but unless the seminary experience is being embraced in the totality of my being complete with mentors and live professors - I don't see myself not slipping into resenting the amount of work I must do with 2+ jobs and work at church.

I'm happy to wait until the Millennial Kingdom for any future educational degrees.

 

[Reynolds]

Liberty University accepts them. They will transfer in as electives. Larger churches will want an MDiv or PHD minimnum.

Yep, and unfortunately that's what's wrong with many larger churches; doctors who bore and liberalize their congregations to death. Give me a firebrand who never set foot in seminary.

 

[JonC]

Yep, and unfortunately that's what's wrong with many larger churches; doctors who bore and liberalize their congregations to death. Give me a firebrand who never set foot in seminary.

I had a pastor like that once. He was not literate (he was an elderly preacher when I was young). He listened to Scripture and memorized based on hearing. You could ask him to quote a passage....any passage...and he could by memory. And he was a passionate preacher (and good pastor).

That said, he did teach a lot of error (he did not always understand the words he memorized). But he had the gospel right.

 

[Reynolds]

I had a pastor like that once. He was not literate (he was an elderly preacher when I was young). He listened to Scripture and memorized based on hearing. You could ask him to quote a passage....any passage...and he could by memory. And he was a passionate preacher (and good pastor).

That said, he did teach a lot of error (he did not always understand the words he memorized). But he had the gospel right.

Yep. I know a lot of Doctors who teach error. Calvinism vs non-calvinism being a prime example. One side or the other is in error. Many Doctors teach one or the other. Pre millennial, post millennial, pre trib, mid trib, post trib, no rapture, 2 raptures, 1 rapture, 3 raptures; Doctors teach all those positions. Some are in error.
It seems ok to be in error if you graduate seminary?

 

[JonC]

It seems ok to be in error if you graduate seminary?

Yes. It is alright to be in error if a seminary graduate. It is OK to be in error if completely uneducated as well. We are not perfect people and need to stop expecting perfection from other people.

There are a few things that I will never do again. I will never sit under a pastor who is not a seminary graduate (there is something to at least having had an opportunity to have worked out one's beliefs in a milieu of different views). Biblical education is no less important than any other type of education (I'd say it's more important). Churches should take on that role, but the ones who have assumed the responsibility of educating those who would be pastors have gone far astray (in my view).

But more importantly, I will not sit under a pastor who treats the ministry as a profession. Too many pastors seem to approach ministry as if it were a business.

 

[Salty]

There are a few things that I will never do again. I will never sit under a pastor who is not a seminary graduate..

So I take it you would not sit under a pastor who has never been to Bible College?

I've been told that down in Applicia,(West VA) some pastors haven't finished much more than the 7th or 8th grade...

 

[JonC]

So I take it you would not sit under a pastor who has never been to Bible College?

Yes.

There may be exceptions to this (Tozer was one), but it'd be the exception and not the rule.

 

[Reynolds]

Yes.

There may be exceptions to this (Tozer was one), but it'd be the exception and not the rule.

The Gospel is simple. If one must go to seminary to understand something, I am not sure that subject is highly beneficial to the congregation. It seems to me that the best sermons do not need a seminary degree to preach nor do you need one to understand them.
I don't think the apostles, with the exception of Paul, had much of a clue what was written in the "law or the prophets."

 

[JonC]

The Gospel is simple. If one must go to seminary to understand something, I am not sure that subject is highly beneficial to the congregation. It seems to me that the best sermons do not need a seminary degree to preach nor do you need one to understand them.
I don't think the apostles, with the exception of Paul, had much of a clue what was written in the "law or the prophets."

I believe evangelism to be the role of every Christian. Pastors are to pastor the congregation who are already saved.

 

[Reynolds]

I believe evangelism to be the role of every Christian. Pastors are to pastor the congregation who are already saved.

I would have to agree with Bailey Smith on that topic. He says evangelism is the primary role of the pastor and equipping the saints to evangelize is a near second. He said the pastor should visit, evangelize, and lead a minimum of 50 people per year, outside the church, to Christ. He said if a pastor is not leading 50 a year outside the Church to Christ, he is a pretty poor pastor.

 

[JonC]

I would have to agree with Bailey Smith on that topic. He says evangelism is the primary role of the pastor and equipping the saints to evangelize is a near second. He said the pastor should visit, evangelize, and lead a minimum of 50 people per year, outside the church, to Christ. He said if a pastor is not leading 50 a year outside the Church to Christ, he is a pretty poor pastor.

I know that is a popular view. And it explains why we may not see eye to eye on this topic.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Just a few thoughts from a non-SBC POV.

• I assume the seminaries being spoken of are all SBC. Such tales have lead to the poor reputation of the pre-Rusurgence SBC.
  
• The Lord saved me back in 1972, since then, I've sat under a variety of pastors. Their education has ranged a certificate from New Brunswick Bible Institute to a BD from Bob Jones University.
  

• He said if a pastor is not leading 50 a year outside the Church to Christ, he is a pretty poor pastor.

  In San Francisco or even Northern California, that would constitute a movement of the Holy Spirit on the par with the Great Awakening.

 

[Reynolds]

Just a few thoughts from a non-SBC POV.

• I assume the seminaries being spoken of are all SBC. Such tales have lead to the poor reputation of the pre-Rusurgence SBC.
  
• The Lord saved me back in 1972, since then, I've sat under a variety of pastors. Their education has ranged a certificate from New Brunswick Bible Institute to a BD from Bob Jones University.
  
• In San Francisco or even Northern California, that would constitute a movement of the Holy Spirit on the par with the Great Awakening.

I don't know about on a personal level, but as a church, John MacArthur seems to be doing pretty nicely in Sun Valley.

 

[Squire Robertsson]

Sun Valley is in the Los Angeles area. That's just over three hundred miles south. Different demographics. While 300 mile noth of Atlanta puts you near Lexington, KY not a whole lot of difference there. 300 miles north of Lexington puts you near Detroit.

I don't know about on a personal level, but as a church, John MacArthur seems to be doing pretty nicely in Sun Valley.

 

[Greektim]

Yep, and unfortunately that's what's wrong with many larger churches; doctors who bore and liberalize their congregations to death. Give me a firebrand who never set foot in seminary.

Why is it that when it comes to our physical health, we want a well trained and well educated doctor. But for our spiritual health......... an uneducated firebrand!!! Doesn't seem to compute to me.

 

[Reynolds]

Why is it that when it comes to our physical health, we want a well trained and well educated doctor. But for our spiritual health......... an uneducated firebrand!!! Doesn't seem to compute to me.

The firebrand is more effective.salvation is not surgery. God never intended it to be that complicated.

 

[agedman]

The firebrand is more effective.salvation is not surgery. God never intended it to be that complicated.

Salvation is the conception. One unprepared for meat.

Believers must grow.

The Scriptures teach that evangelism is a gift. Pastoring is a gift. Teaching is a gift.

A church is wise when they seek out men gifted.

Some Pastors might be apt as teachers, but not all teachers are apt pastors. Few evangelists are good pastors or teachers.


Now those are my own opinions.

Rare is the person who is truly gifted in all three.

Unlearned and unskilled is one who claims a certain number of results is validation of the gift.

A doctor may be a surgeon, but there are very few gifted surgeons.

A teacher may certainly teach, but students can easily recall the gifted teachers.

The skill set of the evangelist, the pastor, the teacher are not all the same.

 

[Salty]

Why is it that when it comes to our physical health, we want a well trained and well educated doctor. But for our spiritual health......... an uneducated firebrand!!! Doesn't seem to compute to me.

go
When I went to Sick Call while I was in the Army - I would see Private -a Spec 4 or Sp 5- These young medics go thur 16 weeks of medical training.I think that is just a tad less than a doctor. Yet, these young men have help save thousands of lives.

 

[Reynolds]

Salvation is the conception. One unprepared for meat.

Believers must grow.

The Scriptures teach that evangelism is a gift. Pastoring is a gift. Teaching is a gift.

A church is wise when they seek out men gifted.

Some Pastors might be apt as teachers, but not all teachers are apt pastors. Few evangelists are good pastors or teachers.


Now those are my own opinions.

Rare is the person who is truly gifted in all three.

Unlearned and unskilled is one who claims a certain number of results is validation of the gift.

A doctor may be a surgeon, but there are very few gifted surgeons.

A teacher may certainly teach, but students can easily recall the gifted teachers.

The skill set of the evangelist, the pastor, the teacher are not all the same.

The Church was never intended to be seminary. Most of these men with degrees piled high have forgotten how to be pastors. They are boring, detached, seminary professors acting out the role of pastor.