Cut Your Teeth on the Word of Faith

[rockytopva]

I am not a supporter of the Kenneth Copeland ministries, but here is his doctrinal statement..

• We believe in one God—Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Creator of all things.
• We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died and was buried; He was resurrected, ascended into heaven and is now seated at the right hand of God the Father and is true God and true man.
• We believe the Bible in its entirety to be the inspired Word of God and the infallible rule of faith and conduct.
• We believe in the resurrection of the dead, the eternal happiness of the saved, and the eternal punishment of the lost.
• We believe in personal salvation of believers through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
• We believe in sanctification through the Word of God and by the Holy Spirit, and we believe in personal holiness, purity of heart and life.
• We believe in divine healing, through faith in the Name of Jesus Christ, and that healing is included in redemption.
• We believe in water baptism, in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as distinct from the new birth, in speaking with tongues as the Spirit
of God gives utterance (Acts 2:4), in the gifts of the Spirit, and the evidence of the fruit of the spirit. We believe that all of these are available to believers.
• We believe in the Christian’s hope—the soon-coming, personal return of the Lord Jesus Christ.
• We believe in evangelism and missionary work in accordance with the Christian commission (Matthew 28:19).

In which, I do not have a problem with.

 

[Yeshua1]

I have never heard this taught and don't know what you are talking about.

WoF teaches that we have the God nature, as God created adam to be every bit His equal, and that when we are born again, just as Jesus was an incarnation of God, so then we are also!

 

[rockytopva]

WoF teaches that we have the God nature, as God created adam to be every bit His equal, and that when we are born again, just as Jesus was an incarnation of God, so then we are also!

I have never heard this taught and don't know what you are talking about. Please find all your allegations on a doctrinal statement and share. Bearing false witness is a wrong doing.

 

[Yeshua1]

I have never heard this taught and don't know what you are talking about. Please find all your allegations on a doctrinal statement and share. Bearing false witness is a wrong doing.

Please read this, as it outlines from their own lips their many heresies!
A Biblical Response to the Word of Faith Movement | Faith Ministries Resources

 

[rockytopva]

If I were pressed to find fault in this particular Word of Faith church it would be in this single statement....

Service starts at 10am and pre-service prayer is at 9:30am.

Just one service a week. I was brought up Baptist in much conference and then Pentecostal Holiness in much revival. It is very hard to find quality Christian conference these days!

 

[Yeshua1]

If I were pressed to find fault in this particular Word of Faith church it would be in this single statement....

Service starts at 10am and pre-service prayer is at 9:30am.

Just one service a week. I was brought up Baptist in much conference and then Pentecostal Holiness in much revival. It is very hard to find quality Christian conference these days!

Read the doctrine of the WoF that theology right from the Pit!

 

[rockytopva]

Please read this, as it outlines from their own lips their many heresies!
A Biblical Response to the Word of Faith Movement | Faith Ministries Resources

Obvious people who do not like the movement. Please look up a Word of Faith site and find these allegations. And now for a true finding of what they really believe....
https://www.wordoffaith.cc/about

The Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God.
In the triune nature of God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God and are in need of salvation. Salvation has been provided through Jesus Christ for all men.
The in-filling of the Holy Spirit is an experience subsequent to salvation and that it is the will of God that all be filled.
Healing provided in the redemptive work of Christ and is available to every believer.
The church consists of all those who have received Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.
There shall be a bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust.
In the personal, visible, imminent return of Jesus Christ.
In water baptism and the observance of the Lord’s Supper.

 

[Yeshua1]

Obvious people who do not like the movement. Please look up a Word of Faith site and find these allegations. And now for a true finding of what they really believe....
https://www.wordoffaith.cc/about
The Bible is the divinely inspired Word of God.
In the triune nature of God: the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit.
All have sinned and come short of the glory of God and are in need of salvation. Salvation has been provided through Jesus Christ for all men.
The in-filling of the Holy Spirit is an experience subsequent to salvation and that it is the will of God that all be filled.
Healing provided in the redemptive work of Christ and is available to every believer.
The church consists of all those who have received Jesus Christ as their personal Savior.
There shall be a bodily resurrection of the just and the unjust.
In the personal, visible, imminent return of Jesus Christ.
In water baptism and the observance of the Lord’s Supper.

That might what what THAT churches holds with, but the WoF teachers, big names, all peddle those heresies outlined there!

 

[rockytopva]

That might what what THAT churches holds with, but the WoF teachers, big names, all peddle those heresies outlined there!

What do you suggest I do? Join up with the Southern Baptist church?

 

[Yeshua1]

What do you suggest I do? Join up with the Southern Baptist church?

No, if you have a church not caught up in WoF heresies, great!

 

[rockytopva]

No, if you have a church not caught up in WoF heresies, great!

The churches that I would recommend....

Baptist - The independent variety
Pentecostal Holiness - This is getting past tense as most have gone the way of the Methodist
Word of Faith - This is an independent movement. Pray about it. The doctrinal statements I have quoted are good ones.

Baptist... We have a local independent Baptist church that did really good and grew to be a large one. Most of the Baptist I knew went there and they all met the qualifications of the fruits of the Spirit. The old faithful preacher who started the place retired and they got one from Ohio with a Masters Degree with no people skills. This guy announces all these changes and tells the people if you don't like it leave.... And they did! Now nobody I know goes there.

In this day and time the senior pastor has a very important role. You can change pastors with the same doctrinal beliefs and go from good to bad. And sanctification is an important addition to salvation.... And to quote Kenneth Copelands website...

• "We believe in sanctification through the Word of God and by the Holy Spirit, and we believe in personal holiness, purity of heart and life."

 

[rockytopva]

In Paul's initial vision the Lord says....

To open their eyes, and to turn them from darkness to light, and from the power of Satan unto God, that they may receive forgiveness of sins, and inheritance among them which are sanctified by faith that is in me. - Acts 26:18

Noting that the sanctification came by faith. As well as the healing...

14 Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord:
15 And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.
16 Confess your faults one to another, and pray one for another, that ye may be healed. The effectual fervent prayer of a righteous man availeth much. - James 5

 

[Yeshua1]

The churches that I would recommend....

Baptist - The independent variety
Pentecostal Holiness - This is getting past tense as most have gone the way of the Methodist
Word of Faith - This is an independent movement. Pray about it. The doctrinal statements I have quoted are good ones.

Baptist... We have a local independent Baptist church that did really good and grew to be a large one. Most of the Baptist I knew went there and they all met the qualifications of the fruits of the Spirit. The old faithful preacher who started the place retired and they got one from Ohio with a Masters Degree with no people skills. This guy announces all these changes and tells the people if you don't like it leave.... And they did! Now nobody I know goes there.

In this day and time the senior pastor has a very important role. You can change pastors with the same doctrinal beliefs and go from good to bad. And sanctification is an important addition to salvation.... And to quote Kenneth Copelands website...

• "We believe in sanctification through the Word of God and by the Holy Spirit, and we believe in personal holiness, purity of heart and life."

he also teaches that we have the same nature and are in the God class, as Jesus was first born among many, and that all born again as just like He was, an incarnation of God!

 

[rockytopva]

I worked with a lady by the name of Nancy. Back in the 1990's her heart was only like 10% and they were expecting her to die. I myself had given up hope for her.

And then... Months later... Nancy is back! After she had been back many months I asked her what happened. She said that there on her death bed a prayer team assembled, held hands, anointed her with oil, and prayed a healing prayer over her in the name of Jesus. Though that has been decades ago she was still alive the last time I checked up on her in 2016. I asked her, "Nancy, was the prayer team Pentecostal?" She said, "No, Baptist!"

 

[Yeshua1]

I worked with a lady by the name of Nancy. Back in the 1990's her heart was only like 10% and they were expecting her to die. I myself had given up hope for her.

And then... Months later... Nancy is back! After she had been back many months I asked her what happened. She said that there on her death bed a prayer team assembled, held hands, anointed her with oil, and prayed a healing prayer over her in the name of Jesus. Though that has been decades ago she was still alive the last time I checked up on her in 2016. I asked her, "Nancy, was the prayer team Pentecostal?" She said, "No, Baptist!"

That was following the scriptures as per james, not the same as what WoF teaches!

 

[rockytopva]

he also teaches that we have the same nature and are in the God class, as Jesus was first born among many, and that all born again as just like He was, an incarnation of God!

I have no problems with Kenneth Copeland's doctrinal statement...

• We believe in one God—Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Creator of all things.
• We believe that the Lord Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God, was conceived of the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary, was crucified, died and was buried; He was resurrected, ascended into heaven and is now seated at the right hand of God the Father and is true God and true man.
• We believe the Bible in its entirety to be the inspired Word of God and the infallible rule of faith and conduct.
• We believe in the resurrection of the dead, the eternal happiness of the saved, and the eternal punishment of the lost.
• We believe in personal salvation of believers through the shed blood of Jesus Christ.
• We believe in sanctification through the Word of God and by the Holy Spirit, and we believe in personal holiness, purity of heart and life.
• We believe in divine healing, through faith in the Name of Jesus Christ, and that healing is included in redemption.
• We believe in water baptism, in the Baptism in the Holy Spirit as distinct from the new birth, in speaking with tongues as the Spirit
of God gives utterance (Acts 2:4), in the gifts of the Spirit, and the evidence of the fruit of the spirit. We believe that all of these are available to believers.
• We believe in the Christian’s hope—the soon-coming, personal return of the Lord Jesus Christ.
• We believe in evangelism and missionary work in accordance with the Christian commission (Matthew 28:19).

Ministers.... I do not reccomend any single minister of any denomination or movement. Saint Augustine once said that, "Man's extremity is God's opportunity!" But as far as I am concerned man's extremity is God`s big headache. In any minister you listen to you will find things you agree or disagree with. The only church I find having services in May, 2020, is the Word of Faith church. Before church they gathered for a good bit for prayer in front of the church and then a good time of worship. I had tears in my eyes as they would sing. The minister preached on 1 Corinthians 13 on the gifts without charity and I left in good feeling, sensing my heart touched by a wonderful service. He had no references on money and would caution against tongues if not in proper Spirit.

Make thee two trumpets of silver; of a whole piece shalt thou make them: that thou mayest use them for the calling of the assembly, and for the journeying of the camps. - Numbers 10:2

Metaphors...

First Trumpet - The Spirit
Second Trumpet - The Word
Whole Piece - They never take two opposing views
The Assembly - Church service
Journeying - Direction and order of service

First Trumpet - As in....
*** The song service
*** Worship
*** Praise
*** The Holy Spirit
*** Prayer Meetings
*** Spiritual fruit - The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance: against such there is no law. - Galatians 5:22-23
***Spiritual E/c2 - Spiritual Energy (warmth, love, motivation) / Spiritual Light (faith, hope, charity, joy)

Second Trumpet - As in....
*** The Ministry of the Word
*** The Preacher or Evangelist
*** The Circuit Rider of Exhorter
*** Christ Jesus
*** Bible studies
*** Spiritual Knowledge - And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. - 2 Timothy 3:15

And we have had ministry teams such as...

John and Charles Wesley
DL Moody and Ira Sankey
Billy Sunday and Homer Rodeheaver
Billy Graham and George Beverly Shea

I enjoy services when ministry includes good worship and a time in the word. I have a problem with religions that will add some kind of special revelation to the Word of God, and then condemn those who do not embrace the special revelation. Which to me categorizes such a movement as a cult.

There would have been a lot of ministries that would have been more effective had they good worship to go along with the time in the word.

 

[robycop3]

Thing is, WOF big names SAY one thing & PRACTICE something else.

I attended ONE HP service & thought I'd walked into a funny farm. The preacher kept getting louder & louder til he was screeching & no one could understand him; the congregation started waving their arms, getting up & doing the Twist, & finally, many of them lay on the floor, cutting dust bunnies. AT THAT POINT, I LEFT ! While I was not saved at that time, I still thought, "How can acting insane be honoring God ?"

I will NOT enter one of those goofy places again !

Seems one of them taught you some false doctrines such as the KJVO myth & a few others we have discussed. I hope you, too, remain free of those false churches.

 

[rockytopva]

Thing is, WOF big names SAY one thing & PRACTICE something else.

I attended ONE HP service & thought I'd walked into a funny farm. The preacher kept getting louder & louder til he was screeching & no one could understand him; the congregation started waving their arms, getting up & doing the Twist, & finally, many of them lay on the floor, cutting dust bunnies. AT THAT POINT, I LEFT ! While I was not saved at that time, I still thought, "How can acting insane be honoring God ?"

I will NOT enter one of those goofy places again !

Seems one of them taught you some false doctrines such as the KJVO myth & a few others we have discussed. I hope you, too, remain free of those false churches.

The preacher taught from the KJV one week and the AMP this week. The people would worship from obvious heart felt worship. The minister continued his theme in loving God first and the neighbor as well. Wonderful fellowship both before and after the service. There was a warmth and a love in the place. And there were no feelings of animosity one to another.

Animosity - A strong feeling of dislike or hatred : ill will or resentment tending toward active hostility : an antagonistic (conflicting) attitude.
Love - A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. - John 13:34-45

If the true love of God is not in a place the animosity will cause you will leave with a disturbed feeling. There is also a warmth there similar to what John Wesley ran into early in his ministry.

John Wesley was almost in despair after a disastrous trip to America and loosing his dad. He did not have the faith to continue to preach. When death stared him in the face, he was fearful and found little comfort in his religion. To Peter Böhler, a Moravian friend, he confessed his growing misery and decision to give up the ministry. Böhler counseled otherwise. "Preach faith till you have it," he advised. "And then because you have it, you will preach faith." On May 24th, 1738 he opened his Bible at about five in the morning and came across these words, "There are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises, even that ye should partakers of the divine nature." He read similar words in other places. That evening he reluctantly attended a meeting in Aldersgate. Someone read from Luther's Preface to the Epistle to Romans. About 8:45 p.m. "while he was describing the change which God works in the heart through faith in Christ, I felt my heart strangely warmed. I felt I did trust in Christ, Christ alone for salvation; and an assurance was given me that He had taken away my sins, even mine, and saved me from the law of sin and death."

 

[rockytopva]

Thing is, WOF big names SAY one thing & PRACTICE something else.

I attended ONE HP service & thought I'd walked into a funny farm. The preacher kept getting louder & louder til he was screeching & no one could understand him; the congregation started waving their arms, getting up & doing the Twist, & finally, many of them lay on the floor, cutting dust bunnies. AT THAT POINT, I LEFT ! While I was not saved at that time, I still thought, "How can acting insane be honoring God ?"

I will NOT enter one of those goofy places again !

Seems one of them taught you some false doctrines such as the KJVO myth & a few others we have discussed. I hope you, too, remain free of those false churches.

Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. - John 13:6-7
Some of my memborable church services included a Foot Washing / Communion service with the Freewill Baptist. Would you consider that goofy? I myself almost did not go, but once I did was glad I went. I left that place warmed of heart and with a very clean spiritual sensation.

 

[robycop3]

Then cometh he to Simon Peter: and Peter saith unto him, Lord, dost thou wash my feet? Jesus answered and said unto him, What I do thou knowest not now; but thou shalt know hereafter. - John 13:6-7
Some of my memborable church services included a Foot Washing / Communion service with the Freewill Baptist. Would you consider that goofy? I myself almost did not go, but once I did was glad I went. I left that place warmed of heart and with a very clean spiritual sensation.

My own IFB church performs foot-washing (Summer only) & holds Communion 4 times a year. For foot-washing, everyone wears sandals or flip-flops & brings his/her own washcloth & we pair off & wash each other's feet. Those are the 2 observances Jesus commanded at the "Last Supper" or first Communion. We are sure to hold a Communion on the first day of passover (Seder) as that's the anniversary of when Jesus initiated it. If possible, we hold foot-washing in the same service.

But a preacher screaming so he can't be understood, & rolling on the floor cutting dust angels is NOT honoring God, nor is it even hinted at in Scripture.