D L Moody on 10 Commandments and Sabbath

Quoting Eric B,
"So adding pagan days is OK; just as long as you keep God's days too? SDA's have taught that SUNDAY in itself is the mark of the beast; not just not keeping Saturday.If Sunday is OK, now; then a lot of SDA writings (Including EG White) are wrong.And if the whole proof of the 7th day is that "man needs rest"; then to get that rest on Sunday after spending all sabbath working in the Church; how is he really different than someone who does any other work on Saturday and rests on Sunday, or argues "just one day in 7 is fine"? Once again; you claim these things are "OK"; but God in the Law has not authorized it."

Eric, you're absolutely right! I wonder if Bob himself can't see what you have inferred from his arguments?

Said Bob, "... the Question is "What is Christ's command regarding HIS Holy Day" and did I honor THAT - or man's tradition INSTEAD?"
In the first place: if I attend church on Sunday it does break the 4th commandment because I honor man's tradition - whether I did it "INSTEAD" of worshipping on the Sabbath the Day God intended and appointed to that end, or not.
In the second place, says Bobn, "It is not sin to observe a tradition in ADDITION to the Word of God". Now what was the Pharisees' corruption of the Fourth Commandment then, not sin? And if even our best and holiest works within the Law are abominable to God if not in Christ Jesus, then what abbout our o so pious "additions"?

 

Quoting BobRyan,
"Moody is the one making that argument. In his case it works SINCE the day he picks to honor and rest on - IS IN FACT the Lord's own Day - the "Sabbath of the Lord thy God""

Moody does not pick the Sabbath "to honour it" nor "to rest on", as I have written before on this thread. He ridicules the principle the Sabbath only is God's Day of Worship-Rest. Bob misunaderstands Moody; he doesn't see Moody's true intentions. Moody, like about every Sunday-Sabbatharian, when talking 'Sabbath', talks falsely.

 

Quoting BobRyan,
"Are you saying that Christ rose on the Seventh-day of the week and the Bible simply forgets to mention it or make the point explicitly?"

I can't believe my eyes! You want to tell me it now to you for the first time dawns?

"the Bible simply forgets to mention it or make the point explicitly?" The Bible fore-tells it already in genesis 2, and confirms it in Exodus 20, and reinforces it agin in Deuteronomy 5, and dramatically illustrates it in 2K11 and 2Chr22, then by the mouth of the prophets trumpets it into the future, and in the end in Christ the Bible makes it true in Jesus Christ in resurrection from the dead - that God on the Seventh Day of the week of which He "THUS CONCERNING SPAKE", finished "ALL the works of God" - INCLUDING His creation, and sweeping it with, and through, and out of death and oblivion through and in Jesus Christ "WHEN HE RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD". There scarsely could be a theme in the whole of the Bible that does not "PROCLAIM" that Jesus WOULD, and in fact DID, rise, from the dead, "IN SABBATH'S-TIME IN THE FULNES OF DAY THE FIRST DAY OF THE WEEK BEFORE" - Matthew 28:1.

 

Quoting BobRyan,
"I see the Bible saying that Christ RESTED on the 7th day in Gen 2:3 AND RESTED on the 7th day on Passion Week. He rose from the dead on the first day of the week. "

Where do you see in your Bible (even) that Christ RESTED on the Seventh Day (Sabbath) on Passion Week?
I pay you every cent I have in the bank for presenting that text to me IF by "rested" you mean 'being dead' and 'in the grave'. Or better, I'll pay you with something of worth far more than money, and admit to and accept and embrace your Sabbath views. But, I'll show you, free of charge, that Christ in truth DID rest on the Seventh Day "Sabbath" MEANING with "rest" that God raised Christ from the dead.

 

Then to God with a heart rejoicing, sing, Alleluiah!

 

Quoting BobRyan,
"that "detail" in your argument"

'That detail' is the gross total of my argument, the only, the all of it, and infinitely more, and greater, and bigger, and, SWEETER!

 

I believe that the "New Testament" church celebrates the Sabbath as Sunday because we celebrate the Risen Christ Jesus, the Living Christ, who rose on the third day, Sunday.

 

No; it is a common argument of the SDA and other groups that would make Him mistaken-- that man needs "rest", and since God originally blessed and rested on the 7th day; that is the only day He can get that "Rest" from God. But no provision has been made for preachers. No; they are not guilty of "breaking" the sabbath. But since the sabbath is supposed to be about "rest"; and ONLY the 7th day has God's blessing of "rest" on it; how now can you allow someone to substitute Sunday; while condemning everyone else?

He is not "keeping" it AS A SABBATH. He believes SUNDAY is "the day", and that he as "the preacher" is the one who is "guiltless" for "working" on it. All of those people who come to Church REGULARLY to hear him preach are KEEPING Sunday (not just attending any arbitrary meeting any day of the week); and he is LEADING them in their SUNDAY worship, not 7th day Sabbath rest.

So then why do you justify either preachers who preach rather than "REST" on the Sabbath, and then choose Sunday for their "Rest" instead; OR who preach on Sunday, and "rest" on the sabbath only because they can't rest on Sunday; which is otherwise "their day of worship". BOTH are basically "keeping whichever day THEY CHOOSE". "KEEPING" the Sabbath was TWOfold. REST, and NO WORK. An exception was made for priests to do religious "work"; but NOT then to choose ANOTHER DAY for their rest!
If they don't have to physically rest; then the argument about "God rested on the 7th day, so so must we FOR ALL TIME on THAT DAY ONLY" is apparently not valid either. "REST" and "NOT WORK" must also have a SPIRITUAL application; which is what the commandment is REALLY about.

And this is in agreement with what Moody says. Only since he wants the physical rest aspect of it too; he happens to choose Saturday.

No; SUNDAY is the day he "honors" by preaching. He just picks Saturday to "rest" on. If He honored the 7th day as the Sabbath; he would be preaching in a weekly Church service on that day; leading his flock of obedient "sabbathkkepers" in keeping the sabbath. Priests in the OT did not rest on the sabbath and then lead the sabbath service on Sunday.
Give it up; Moody is NOT a 7th day sabbathkeeper.

But "Sunday" is condemned in other SDA writings.

Pharisees didn't ask "where do you draw the line?". They tried to SET the line (with a whole bunch of loopholes for their own convenience, of course), and judge everyone else by it; like you're doing.

"WIthout edit" would mean that it was not even "magnified", then!
But then even in the MURDER command; some things HAVE been removed! For each command came with PENALTIES for breaking it. The penalty for murder was death. While the state is free to enforece that or not; still; as a Church body; we do not. We are no longer in the NATION if Israel. The 10 Commandments were the CIVIL LAW of the land (THAT was their significance as a 10 point code inside the Ark of the Covenant); but they are no longer, as God no longer has a physical nation on the earth.

Likewise, the spiritual command to rest in God was just as valid in the OT as well. But just like the people focused on the LETTER of the murder or lust commands, and missed the spirit; they also focused on the letter of the sabbath command and missed its spirit, and THIS is what Heb.4 is talking about when it says they would still not "enter His rest" even though they "kept" a literal day; because they were trusting in their works to justify them! So the Law's being MAGNIFIED means that the spiritual intent of it; which was downplayed in favor of the letter in the OT, is now emphasized; meaning that SOME of the letter is now downplayed; or annilled; while SOME does still carry on as part of the true spiritual application.

"Commandments" means the SPIRITUAL law that we follow in the NT; not the LETTER of the OT Law. Else; we would still need to stone murderers and adulterers, and bring sacrifices to the Temple in Israel, and keep ALL the days, including the annual and new moons, etc.
This is where you jump the track. You think "commandments" means "the OT Law"; but then you don't keep all of that. And since it was by "God's Word" that both the OT ad NT commandments were given; then to say one is nailed to the Cross and replaced with the other is not nailing "GOD'S WORD" to the Cross. God's Word still stands, and He is free to rescind something He earlier commanded.

We've been through this before too. The Greek is "dogma", which means "a law"; not a "certificate"; despite a certain unforunate translation.

And you conveniently skip over my aswer to that. To repeat: "Of course, we cannot not work every day; so this shows that the whole issue of "work/non-work" is not really at the heart or spirit of the sabbath command. In fact; the fact that a special waiver was made for the priests (with no provision to make it up) also proves this. This is WHY it 'APPEARS' that the commandment is 'diminished'..."

And what is "keeping it holy" then? This we will now get into:

Yes; you have to be a child of God every day. Everything you do is supposed to "glorify God" (1 Cor.10:31). Everything we do on the seventh day of the week is to be honoring to God, as it is the other six days of the week. And we are to REST in God all 7 days of the week (even if we are not able to get physical rest, as not all are. Of course, as a "healthy ideal"; we should get rest; but God's commands are not based on "health principles".)
So THIS is how the sabbath command is MAGNIFIED! And yes; God always expected that, even in the OT; but most of the people back then, focusing on the LETTER did not get it. They did not have the Spirit, and the commandments "written on their hearts" for one thing.

And this is AFFIRMING it in real life. Just as avoiding lust and hatred affirms the murder commandment, even though we are not executed when we actually do these things; and the priest or preacher still affirms the Sabbath though he actually "works" on it!

We're not actually violating that commandment, anymore than a preacher for doing religious work on it, or we are for not executing adulterers, haters, including people who start strife, which would include arguments like this. We must BE holy, and "cease from our works"(Heb.4:10) that day and EVERY day!

 

What time zone does Christ "choose" for his sabbath?

 

HUH? What does this passage have to do with anything we're talking about? Mary came to the grave on Sunday--what did Christ say here that I'm "arguing" against?

But He's not KEEPING it. The sabbath was not only for rest; but also a HOLY CONVOCATION--the religious service; which for preachers is for preaching. He clearly does that on Sunday. That is the HOLY CONVOCATION to him; not Saturday.
Saying you can switch them up between resting and worship service is your own rule; and I'm shocked that you're that liberal about it!

He did not choose it as Christ's day; he chooses Sunday as Christ's day, which for him means preaching. He chose against Saturday as Christ's day, but instead chose to use it for physical rest that he could not get on Sunday because of his position as a preacher.