Da Vinci Code: Local DJ asks the question

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I heard a local radio dj ask the following question about the Davinci Code: How would it effect Christs' Diety if he were married and had children? Why is this idea such a problem for Christianity?

Thoughts?

Joseph Botwinick

 

[UnchartedSpirit]

Besides his being single makes him bery unique from other Gods of the religions at that time?

 

[Brandon C. Jones]

I heard Ben Witherington speak on the subject about a week ago and he said that there's no theological reason why Jesus couldn't be married since he was truly man. I concur with him on that one. However, I think the core of the issue with Brown is that he's seemingly tried to present a fictitious storyline as historically true; that's the part to be upset about.

bj

 

[Ransom]

How would it effect Christs' Diety if he were married and had children?

Strictly speaking, I don't think it would. But the fact of his marriage and progeny would have major implications.

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• Are Jesus' children divine, or not?</font>
• Assuming they are, does that mean there is a line of demigods running around the earth right now?</font>
• Would they be sinless, too?</font>
• If they are divine, does that mean Christians are polytheists?</font>
• Is it OK to worship them?</font>

 

[Brandon C. Jones]

I would say no to your first question and the others would follow. Divinity is not a hereditary trait encoded in DNA. The Chalcedonian claim that the two natures are separate would apply to this issue. Jesus' divinity is not grounded in his humanity.

that's my response.

[I suppose one could carry the issue further regarding the age old debate on the origin of souls. The creationist would have no problem with this issue while the traducianist could have some trouble. However, traducianism doesn't necessarily entail that the offspring gets "a piece" of his parents' souls (at least I've never thought so), so I think it would be a non-issue...but something interesting to consider. Even if the version of traducianism holds where one "gets" his/her soul from his/her parent (in other words the gametes meet and a complete person is created with the stuff that's present), the children would still be "normal." Christ did not sin because He was divine, not because He had a different soul so to speak (after all his body was a fallen one subject to disease and death). Things like this haven't been discussed much since early church history with all the Christological controversies though. I'm thankful that I can be God's child and a co-heir with Christ...that's enough for me

]

[ May 22, 2006, 10:01 PM: Message edited by: Brandon C. Jones ]

 

[rsr]

I can't see any insuperable theological obstacles to Jesus' being married and procreating, as explained in the post above.

There, of course, would be the chance that descendants would attempt to cash in on their lineage and probably would succeed. (Although, apparently, it didn't work all that well for the Merovingeans.)

Jesus has already supplied the answer:

While he was still speaking to the people, behold, his mother and his brothers stood outside, asking to speak to him. But he replied to the man who told him, "Who is my mother, and who are my brothers?" And stretching out his hand toward his disciples, he said, "Here are my mother and my brothers! For whoever does the will of my Father in heaven is my brother and sister and mother."

(Matthew 12:46-50, ESV)

I don't believe it, however, but not on theological grounds. I find many of Brown's "claims" more ludicrous than positing that Jesus was married. It's just a tiny bit of the unraveling fabric of fiction he attempts to weave together with bailing wire and bubble gum.

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
I heard a local radio dj ask the following question about the Davinci Code: How would it effect Christs' Diety if he were married and had children? Why is this idea such a problem for Christianity?

Thoughts?

Joseph Botwinick

I think a much more important question would be, "How can so many people fall for such historically and Biblically inaccurate fiction as if it's real?"

 

[Me4Him]

Mt 22:2 The kingdom of heaven is like unto a certain king, which made a marriage for his son,

Jesus is Married, but not in the carnal sense of the word.

Mt 3:9 And think not to say within yourselves, We have Abraham to our father: for I say unto you, that God is able of these stones to raise up children unto Abraham.

Ga 3:7 Know ye therefore that they which are of faith, the same are the children of Abraham.

Ro 4:13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith.
(Jesus/Mary Mag, children. )

Ro 2:28 For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh:

29 But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter; whose praise is not of men, but of God.

Ro 9:8 That is, They which are the children of the flesh, these are not the children of God: but the children of the promise are counted for the seed.

Joh 3:29 He that hath the bride is the bridegroom:

Mt 25:6 Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

Re 19:9 And he saith unto me, Write, Blessed are they which are called unto the marriage supper of the Lamb.

Watch and see how many "theologians" make this point about "Jesus's marriage", so far, I haven't seen one even mention it.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

He doesn't believe it is real. He was putting it forth as a hypothetical.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[npetreley]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
He doesn't believe it is real. He was putting it forth as a hypothetical.

Joseph Botwinick

EDIT: I misunderstood what you were saying. I can't imagine that anyone on this board would take the DV code seriously. And I wasn't really commenting on the DJ. I'm just amazed that ANYONE would take it seriously.

 

[DeeJay]

Joseph

Was the DJ Glenn Beck?

 

[saturneptune]

The issue isnt the marriage that should bother everyone, its the fact this work of fiction denies His death, burial, and ressurection.

 

[rbell]

Two thoughts:

(1) I think it would mess up Catholic theology more than protestant...


(2) Ignorant-sounding sentence follows: I know I don't like it...but I need to think a bit as to exactly why.

 

[MB]

Hi joseph;
If Jesus did marry and have children wouldn't the children also be god by default? I understand that some believe His mother is co redemptress with Christ. This gives her the appearance of deity. It seems that since His earthly mother has been worshiped so would His wife and children if they existed this would forever deminish His glory. A royal god family. Being God mixed with man these godmen sooner or later would sin and come under the same curse that is already on man. Who would die to save the godmen?
I could never believe that God would lower himself to be a little lower than the angles just to live like any man would live. Being married would have distracted His purpose. Christ just didn't come here to be like us. He came so that we might be like Him.
MB

 

[Brandon C. Jones]

Me4...the OP addresses the claim in the Da Vinci Code regarding what you label "carnal" marriage (not sure about that nametage since God ordained this type of marriage), so methinks proper responses would address the issue at hand. Not sure if there was any need for the angry faces or scare quotes around theologian in your post, but we're all adults here

.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by DeeJay:
Joseph

Was the DJ Glenn Beck?

No. It was a local guy.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[rsr]

Originally posted by Brandon C. Jones:
but we're all adults here

.

Take that back!

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Brandon C. Jones:
Me4...the OP addresses the claim in the Da Vinci Code regarding what you label "carnal" marriage (not sure about that nametage since God ordained this type of marriage), so methinks proper responses would address the issue at hand. Not sure if there was any need for the angry faces or scare quotes around theologian in your post, but we're all adults here

.

History/Discover/National Geo channels constitude 99.9% of my TV viewing, occasionally, an old "Western Cowboy Movie".

The Da vinci code isn't the only program questioning Jesus's deity, all of them are running some type of program sowing seeds of doubt, then questioning some "professor of Theology" about the truth of their doubts.

And I've yet to see one give an answer that demonstrate any spiritual knowledge of scripture, their answers "Conforms to the wisdom of this world".

I don't know where they dig up these characters, but they need to rebury them, they're "Spiritually dead".

1Co 2:4 And my speech and my preaching was not with enticing words of man's wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power:

1Co 2:6 Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect:

1Co 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew:

1Co 2:10 But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit:

I'm angry because they don't give the "FOOLISH" an opportunity to "confound the wise" with their "Stupidity".

 

[Brandon C. Jones]

Me4...thanks for the explanation. I agree that those shows are typically useless in explaining what evangelicals or even mainline orthodox (not in the Greek sense) theologians believe. Those programs usually find some people from renowned schools' departments of religion where all religions are to be dissected and explained away. I took a little offense at your "theologians" comment because the only one named was Ben Witherington, who is truly a believer.

In fact, he was on NPR not to long ago to discuss the Gospel of Judas with two religious scholars from renowned schools who were so excited about the book and when the host asked him what this book can tell us about Jesus his answer was: "nothing." The host then wanted him to clarify and he said, "Na da." Perhaps there's an example of the foolish being able to confound the wise.

blessings,
BJ

 

[tinytim]

Originally posted by saturneptune:
The issue isnt the marriage that should bother everyone, its the fact this work of fiction denies His death, burial, and ressurection.

And also the chipping away of the authority of the Bible. When people would rather believe a work of fiction than the Bible, what does that say about the world.

I know, that has always happened, but it just seems to be getting worse.