Daniel 12:4 in the NIV

[william s. correa]

Some good Info!

:Fish: Mark 16:9-20
NIV has a note between verses 8 and 9 stating that the most reliable early manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9-20. NKJV has a marginal note stating that Aleph and B do not contain the verses, although most other manuscripts of Mark do. RSV (1971 Edition) has a marginal note stating that some of the most ancient authorities conclude at verse 8 but that most authorities contain verses 9-20. (The 1946 Edition omitted verses 9-20 from the text, placing them in italics as a footnote. See remarks in Preface to 1971 Edition, vii, where the translators seek to cover up their ineptness.) GN brackets the verses, with a marginal note stating that some manuscripts and ancient translations omit this ending to the Gospel. LB, in the margin, notes that the verses are not found in the most ancient manuscripts but may be considered an appendix. AMP notes in the margin that the verses are not in the two earliest manuscripts. NASV brackets the verses, noting in the margin that some of the oldest manuscripts do not contain the verses. NSRB notes in the margin that Aleph and B do not contain the verses, although other manuscripts do and that they are quoted by Irenaeus and Hippolytus in the 2nd or 3rd century. NEB notes in the margin that some of the most ancient witnesses do not have the verses. NEB includes in its text the following, which other versions, e.g. RSV, NASV, retain the margin: "And they delivered all these instructions briefly to Peter and his companions. Afterwards Jesus himself sent out by them from east to west the sacred and imperishable message of eternal salvation." NWT has verses 9-20 as a "long conclusion," indicating that manuscripts A, C, D include it, while Aleph, B, the Syriac and Armenian versions omit them. NWT also has the "short conclusion" in its text-see note above on NEB text. JB insists that MANY manuscripts omit the verses
Taken from appendix 2, III: "O Biblios The Book," by Allan O'Reilly

 

[william s. correa]

Matthew 2:11, 9:18, 14:33, 20:20, Mark 5:6

"Worship" has been altered to "Kneeling down" or "knelt" or "did obeisance" by NIV (Matthew 9:18, 20:20, Mark 5:6), NKJV (Matthew 20:20), RSV (Matthew 9:18, 20:20), GN (Matthew 9:18, 20:20, Mark 5:6), LB (Matthew 14:33, 20:20, Mark 5:6), AMP (Mark 5:6), NASV (Matthew 9:18, 20:20, Mark 5:6), NEB (all five verses), NWT (all five verses), JB (all five verses).

Ruckman (2) p 152, states that the word for "worship" (i.e. "proskun") is in ALL Greek manuscripts. Note its use in Matthew 4:10, Luke 4:8, John 4:21, 23, 24, Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 4:10, 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, 14:7, 19:4, 10, 22:9. This is the word found in Berry's Greek text in all five places, although he only translates it as "worship" in Matthew 14:33.
Taken from appendix 2, III: "O Biblios The Book," by Allan O'Reilly

 

[william s. correa]

John 7:18

King James Bible "He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.NIV"He who speaks on his own does so to honor himself, but he who works for the honor of the one who sent him is a man of truth; there is nothing false about him."NAS"He who speaks from himself seeks is own glory; but He who is seeking the glory of the One who sent Him, He is true, and there is no unrighteousness in Him.":Fish:See the total difference as in Daniel 12:4

 

[robycop3]

"Worship" has been altered to "Kneeling down" or "knelt" or "did obeisance" by NIV (Matthew 9:18, 20:20, Mark 5:6), NKJV (Matthew 20:20), RSV (Matthew 9:18, 20:20), GN (Matthew 9:18, 20:20, Mark 5:6), LB (Matthew 14:33, 20:20, Mark 5:6), AMP (Mark 5:6), NASV (Matthew 9:18, 20:20, Mark 5:6), NEB (all five verses), NWT (all five verses), JB (all five verses).

Ruckman (2) p 152, states that the word for "worship" (i.e. "proskun") is in ALL Greek manuscripts. Note its use in Matthew 4:10, Luke 4:8, John 4:21, 23, 24, Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 4:10, 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, 14:7, 19:4, 10, 22:9. This is the word found in Berry's Greek text in all five places, although he only translates it as "worship" in Matthew 14:33.
Taken from appendix 2, III: "O Biblios The Book," by Allan O'Reilly

O'Reilly (and YOU) REALLY drop the ball by quoting RUCKMAN! He is quite off-course by stating that 'proskun' always means 'worship'. please take tome, Mr. Correa, to look up its meaning yourself, insteada depending upon some author do it for you. It shoulda thrown up a red flag to you when O'Reilly quoted RUCKMAN.

JESUS used the verb 'sebomai',(Matt. 15:9) as the Greek readers here will tell you, is a much-more positive word for 'worship'.

And 'proskun' certainly also means, "bow down in reverence", etc. However, in that place & time, such bowing was a part of worshipping.

Swing & a miss, for you again, William!

 

[Ed Edwards]

William S. Correa: //Taken from appendix 2, III: "O Biblios The Book," by Allan O'Reilly//

Unless you checked this argument from this source, you could be
wrong. You may be wrong, but the scripture is always right:

Deut 19:15 (HCSB ):
One witness cannot establish any wrongdoing or sin against a person,
whatever that person has done.
A fact must be established by the testimony of two or three witnesses.

Deut 19:15 (nKJV)
[FONT=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]One witness shall not rise against a man concerning any iniquity or any sin that he commits;
by the mouth of two or three witnesses
the matter shall be established.[/FONT]

 

[Bro Tony]

William if you are going to use Ruckman as an authority you might as well quit the debate. He has shown himself to be extremely ignorant of even the most basic understanding of the texts. No thinking person is going to take any quote of Ruckman seriously, even if he happens to get something right. As the old saying goes--"Even a blind squirrel finds a nut sometime"

Bro Tony

 

[robycop3]

Actually, Bro. Tony, he was quoting O'Reilly, but the fact that O'Reilly was quoting Ruckman shoulda thrown up a red flag to Mr. Correa as well as the resta us. Seeing Ruckman, Riplinger, or any of their ilk quoted in someone else's book or article immediately sets off my "Homeland Security Alarm" about that work & renders it "fiction".

William, you said in another thread that you'd point out Ruckman's faults, so please do us and yourself a coupla favors if ya do...Please don't bring up his marital status, and keep the attax limited to his WRITINGS & not the man himself...OK? We have no right to judge him unless we personally know him. What WE have before us are his WRITINGS, & not the man himself.

 

[robycop3]

Actually, Bro. Tony, he was quoting O'Reilly, but the fact that O'Reilly was quoting Ruckman shoulda thrown up a red flag to Mr. Correa as well as the resta us. Seeing Ruckman, Riplinger, or any of their ilk quoted in someone else's book or article immediately sets off my "Homeland Security Alarm" about that work & renders it "fiction".

William, you said in another thread that you'd point out Ruckman's faults, so please do us and yourself a coupla favors if ya do...Please don't bring up his marital status, and keep the attax limited to his WRITINGS & not the man himself...OK? We have no right to judge him unless we personally know him. What WE have before us are his WRITINGS, & not the man himself.

 

[william s. correa]

Simple quiz for NIV readers!

1. Fill in the missing words in Matthew 5:44. "Love your enemies, ________ them that curse you, _____________ to them that hate you, and pray for them that __________ and persecute you."

2. According to Matthew 17:21, what two things are required to cast out this type of devil?
3. According to Matthew 18:11, why did Jesus come to earth?
4. According to Matthew 27:2, what was Pilate's first name?
5. In Matthew 27:35, when the wicked soldiers parted His garments, they were fulfilling the words of the prophet. Copy what the prophet said in Matthew 27:35 from the NIV.
6. In Mark 3:15, Jesus gave the apostles power to cast out devils and to:
7. According to Mark 7:16, what does a man need to be able to hear?
8. According to Luke 7:28, what was John? (teacher, prophet, carpenter, etc.). What is his title or last name?
9. In Luke 9:55, what did the disciples not know?
10. In Luke 9:56, what did the Son of man not come to do? According to this verse, what did He come to do?
11. In Luke 22:14, how many apostles were with Jesus?
12. According to Luke 23:38, in what three languages was the superscription written?
13. In Luke 24:42, what did they give Jesus to eat with His fish?
14. John 3:13 is a very important verse, proving the deity of Christ. According to this verse (as Jesus spoke), where is the Son of man?
15. What happened each year as told in John 5:4?
16. In John 7:50, what time of day did Nicodemus come to Jesus?
17. In Acts 8:37, what is the one requirement for baptism?
18. What did Saul ask Jesus in Acts 9:6?
19. Write the name of the man mentioned in Acts 15:34.
20. Study Acts 24:6-8. What would the Jew have done with Paul? What was the chief captain's name? What did the chief captain command?
21. Copy Romans 16:24 word for word from the NIV.
22. First Timothy 3:16 is perhaps the greatest verse in the New Testament concerning the deity of Christ. In this verse, who was manifested in the flesh?
23. In the second part of First Peter 4:14, how do [they] speak of Christ? And, what do we Christians do?
24. Who are the three Persons of the Trinity in First John 5:7? 25. Revelation 1:11 is another very important verse that proves the deity of Christ. In the first part of this verse Jesus said, "I am the A__________ and O___________ , the _________ and the _______:" Remember footnotes are not Bible!

 

[robycop3]

1. Fill in the missing words in Matthew 5:44. "Love your enemies, ________ them that curse you, _____________ to them that hate you, and pray for them that __________ and persecute you."

2. According to Matthew 17:21, what two things are required to cast out this type of devil?
3. According to Matthew 18:11, why did Jesus come to earth?
4. According to Matthew 27:2, what was Pilate's first name?
5. In Matthew 27:35, when the wicked soldiers parted His garments, they were fulfilling the words of the prophet. Copy what the prophet said in Matthew 27:35 from the NIV.
6. In Mark 3:15, Jesus gave the apostles power to cast out devils and to:
7. According to Mark 7:16, what does a man need to be able to hear?
8. According to Luke 7:28, what was John? (teacher, prophet, carpenter, etc.). What is his title or last name?
9. In Luke 9:55, what did the disciples not know?
10. In Luke 9:56, what did the Son of man not come to do? According to this verse, what did He come to do?
11. In Luke 22:14, how many apostles were with Jesus?
12. According to Luke 23:38, in what three languages was the superscription written?
13. In Luke 24:42, what did they give Jesus to eat with His fish?
14. John 3:13 is a very important verse, proving the deity of Christ. According to this verse (as Jesus spoke), where is the Son of man?
15. What happened each year as told in John 5:4?
16. In John 7:50, what time of day did Nicodemus come to Jesus?
17. In Acts 8:37, what is the one requirement for baptism?
18. What did Saul ask Jesus in Acts 9:6?
19. Write the name of the man mentioned in Acts 15:34.
20. Study Acts 24:6-8. What would the Jew have done with Paul? What was the chief captain's name? What did the chief captain command?
21. Copy Romans 16:24 word for word from the NIV.
22. First Timothy 3:16 is perhaps the greatest verse in the New Testament concerning the deity of Christ. In this verse, who was manifested in the flesh?
23. In the second part of First Peter 4:14, how do [they] speak of Christ? And, what do we Christians do?
24. Who are the three Persons of the Trinity in First John 5:7? 25. Revelation 1:11 is another very important verse that proves the deity of Christ. In the first part of this verse Jesus said, "I am the A__________ and O___________ , the _________ and the _______:" Remember footnotes are not Bible!

William, William, WILLIAM.......

You're such a BABY in this KJVO thingie! Some day, you're gonna learn to quit copying/pasting from those 3rd-world rat hole sites! This "quiz" is well over 20 years old, and was countered within a month of its publication, with THIS:

Using the King James Version of the Bible, answer the following questions.

(1) John 14:14 contains important proof of Christ's divinity, since prayer is to be offered to God alone. According to this verse, who is it we are to ask for anything in Jesus' name?

(2) Fill in the blanks from Acts 4:25 -- "You spoke by __________ through the mouth of your servant, our __________ David."

(3) In Acts 16:7, Paul and his companions were not allowed to enter Bythinia. According to the verse, the Spirit of __________ prevented them?

(4) In Romans 1:4, who was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead?

(5) An important verse which teaches that the Holy Spirit is a person (and not a "thing" or an impersonal "it" ) is found in Romans 8:26. Find the personal reference to the Holy Spirit.

(6) Fill in the blanks from Romans 8:34 -- "...who is the one who condemns? __________ __________ is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us."

(7) Titus 2:13 is one of the clearest statements of Christ's divinity in the New Testament. According to this verse, for whose glorious appearing do we wait?

(8) Another important verse demonstrating Christ's divinity is found in 2 Peter 1:1. According to this verse, through whose righteousness have we received our precious faith?

(9) Complete the following phrase from the first part of 1 John 3:1 -- "How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is __________!"

(10) Fill in the missing words from Jude 25 -- "...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through __________ __________ __________ __________ , before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen."


Wm, if you'd use YOUR OWN MIND insteada believing every groddy thing you read, you'd drop this whole mess like a hot potato.

Do ya have anything else to say about Daniel 12:4? If not, this thread has served its purpose. Dontcha agree, Roger?

 

[Askjo]

"Worship" has been altered to "Kneeling down" or "knelt" or "did obeisance" by NIV (Matthew 9:18, 20:20, Mark 5:6), NKJV (Matthew 20:20), RSV (Matthew 9:18, 20:20), GN (Matthew 9:18, 20:20, Mark 5:6), LB (Matthew 14:33, 20:20, Mark 5:6), AMP (Mark 5:6), NASV (Matthew 9:18, 20:20, Mark 5:6), NEB (all five verses), NWT (all five verses), JB (all five verses).

Ruckman (2) p 152, states that the word for "worship" (i.e. "proskun") is in ALL Greek manuscripts. Note its use in Matthew 4:10, Luke 4:8, John 4:21, 23, 24, Hebrews 1:6, Revelation 4:10, 5:14, 7:11, 11:16, 14:7, 19:4, 10, 22:9. This is the word found in Berry's Greek text in all five places, although he only translates it as "worship" in Matthew 14:33.
Taken from appendix 2, III: "O Biblios The Book," by Allan O'Reilly

Worship Hour at your church or Kneeling down Hour at your church? Which one do you prefer?

 

[TCassidy]

Worship Hour at your church or Kneeling down Hour at your church? Which one do you prefer?

Askjo, you do know the difference between a noun and a verb, don't you?

 

[Eliyahu]

While not knowing Hebrew as Eliyahu, I had come to the same conclusion because the NIV was the only major translation that makes the prophesied travel a condition for gaining the prophesied knowledge. That's why I started the thread separate from the "NIV vs KJV" thread.

However, that does NOT support KJVOism...it merely points out a discrepancy in the NIV. We can, and sometimes have, pointed out many such discrepancies in the KJV, such as "strain AT a gnat...". The KJV is NOT the only version that 'got it right', so Mr. Correa's argument vapor locks again.

Moderators...If no one else adds anything substantial to the views thus far expressed by a number of Hebrew readers, within about 24 hours, wouldja please consider closing this thread, as it will have served its purpose?

I have checked all the other versions like ASV, NASV, RSV, Darby, Douay Rheims, Youngs Literal, etc. None of them translate this part like NIV, but they all agree with KJV in this verse.
When you raised the issue, I think you should have made some more basic research. No Hebrew grammar or interpretation support NIV though NIV may have had an illusion about the Pilgrimage to increase the knowledge or belief that Tourism industry is useful.

It is strange that you posted this, because this type of thread would have been posted by Anti-NIV or KJVO, not by AKJV.

 

[Askjo]

Askjo, you do know the difference between a noun and a verb, don't you?

Yes, I am aware of that, but please remember my native language is not English.

I put 2 words on my previous post: "Worship" and "kneeling down" for illustration. Suppose, you know what these words mean, but the problem is that MVs changed from "worship" to "kneeling down" Do you prefer to kneel down Jesus rathar THAN worship Him? Kneeling down does NOT mean worship. You would kneel down the King of England WITHOUT worshipping him. Modern versions are wrong. The doctrine in the KJV is crystal clear compared to modern versions.

 

[william s. correa]

Amen

Yes, I am aware of that, but please remember my native language is not
I put 2 words on my previous post: "Worship" and "kneeling down" for illustration. Suppose, you know what these words mean, but the problem is that MVs changed from to "kneeling down" Do you prefer to kneel down Jesus rathar THAN worship Him? Kneeling down does NOT mean worship. You would kneel down the King of England WITHOUT worshipping him. Modern versions are wrong. The doctrine in the KJV is crystal clear compared to modern versions.

And Amen!:Fish:"worship" in English.

 

[william s. correa]

You First

William, William, WILLIAM.......

You're such a BABY in this KJVO thingie! Some day, you're gonna learn to quit copying/pasting from those 3rd-world rat hole sites! This "quiz" is well over 20 years old, and was countered within a month of its publication, with THIS:

Using the King James Version of the Bible, answer the following questions.

(1) John 14:14 contains important proof of Christ's divinity, since prayer is to be offered to God alone. According to this verse, who is it we are to ask for anything in Jesus' name?

(2) Fill in the blanks from Acts 4:25 -- "You spoke by __________ through the mouth of your servant, our __________ David."

(3) In Acts 16:7, Paul and his companions were not allowed to enter Bythinia. According to the verse, the Spirit of __________ prevented them?

(4) In Romans 1:4, who was declared with power to be the Son of God by his resurrection from the dead?

(5) An important verse which teaches that the Holy Spirit is a person (and not a "thing" or an impersonal "it" ) is found in Romans 8:26. Find the personal reference to the Holy Spirit.

(6) Fill in the blanks from Romans 8:34 -- "...who is the one who condemns? __________ __________ is He who died, yes, rather who was raised, who is at the right hand of God, who also intercedes for us."

(7) Titus 2:13 is one of the clearest statements of Christ's divinity in the New Testament. According to this verse, for whose glorious appearing do we wait?

(8) Another important verse demonstrating Christ's divinity is found in 2 Peter 1:1. According to this verse, through whose righteousness have we received our precious faith?

(9) Complete the following phrase from the first part of 1 John 3:1 -- "How great is the love the Father has lavished on us, that we should be called children of God! And that is __________!"

(10) Fill in the missing words from Jude 25 -- "...to the only God our Savior be glory, majesty, power and authority, through __________ __________ __________ __________ , before all ages, now and forevermore! Amen."


Wm, if you'd use YOUR OWN MIND insteada believing every groddy thing you read, you'd drop this whole mess like a hot potato.

Do ya have anything else to say about Daniel 12:4? If not, this thread has served its purpose. Dontcha agree, Roger?

Answer the Questions and I will Answer yours !

 

[TCassidy]

Yes, I am aware of that, but please remember my native language is not English.

I put 2 words on my previous post: "Worship" and "kneeling down" for illustration. Suppose, you know what these words mean, but the problem is that MVs changed from "worship" to "kneeling down" Do you prefer to kneel down Jesus rathar THAN worship Him? Kneeling down does NOT mean worship. You would kneel down the King of England WITHOUT worshipping him. Modern versions are wrong. The doctrine in the KJV is crystal clear compared to modern versions.

Sorry, but the Greek word means just that, to kneel down. And, there was a time that many people in England were referred to as "Your Worship."

 

[william s. correa]

Daniel 12:4 (more Knowledge!)

:thumbs:

Matthew 16:3

"0 ye hypocrites" omitted by the DR, RV, Ne, NIV, NKJV marg., RSV, GN, LB, AMP, NASV, NEB, NWT, JB. Burgon (14) p316 cites Aleph and B as the authorities for this omission and the notes, italics or parentheses disputing the Lord's words in verses 2 and 3 in the NIV, Ne, RSV, GN, AMP, NEB, NWT. Berry's Greek text supports this passage.

Mark 6:11
"Verily I say unto you, It shall he more tolerable for Sodom and Gomorrha in the day of judgment, than for that city" omitted by DR, RV, Ne, NIV, NKJV marg., RSV, GN, LB, NASV, NEB, NWT, 313. AMP italicises the words.
Burgon (14) p 137, 409, states that this passage reading is attested by 11 uncials and the whole body of cursives, with only nine manuscripts in total omitting the words, including six corrupt Alexandrian uncials (p 410). This passage reading is also attested (ibid) by the Peshitta and Philoxenian Syriac Versions, the Old Latin, Coptic, Ethiopic and Gothic :type: Versions, Ireneus (2nd Century) and Victor of Antioch (5th Century). See also Fuller (32) p 149, citing Burgon. Berry's Greek text supports this passage. Taken from appendix 2, III: "O Biblios The Book," by Allan O'Reilly

 

[Askjo]

Sorry, but the Greek word means just that, to kneel down.

Are you saying the KJV translators are wrong? If so, are you saying the KJV is not the INSPIRED Word of God? If the the KJV is right by saying, "kneel down" instead of "worship," then it would say that Jesus is NOT God?

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally Posted by TCassidy
//Sorry, but the Greek word means just that, to kneel down.//

Askjo: //Are you saying the KJV translators are wrong? //

No, he is saying that the Greek word translated in the
KJV as 'worship' means 'to kneel down'.

Matthew 9:18 (KJV 1611 Edition)

Mat 9:18 While hee spake these things vnto them, beholde,
there came a certaine ruler and worshipped him,
saying, My daughter is euen now dead: but come,
and lay thy hand vpon her, and she shall liue.

Here is the Strong's entry for the term:

G4352
προσκυνέω
proskuneō
pros-koo-neh'-o
From G4314 and probably a derivative of G2965 (meaning to kiss,
like a dog licking his master’s hand); to fawn or crouch to,
that is, (literally or figuratively) prostrate oneself in homage (do
reverence to, adore): - worship.

Note, as always, even on a strech, Strong's agrees with the KJV :sleeping_2:

Askjo: //If so, are you saying the KJV is not the INSPIRED Word of God?//

Sir, you are jumping to conclusions and/or misunderstanding
the good Doctor BIG TIME :tear: