Darby's Translation and Dispensationalism

[Smyth]

I just have a few minutes--faculty in-service today. All I can say is no, Darby did not translate epi like en, he translated it like epi, which has a wide range of meaning, including the meaning which he gave it in this passage.

Here is Friberg on the word:

epi, preposition with a basic meaning on,

Thank you. It's settled then. Revelation says the things in Revelation are on/upon the church, not that the angel is testifying to John in the churches (which make no sense, as the angel testified to John on the Island of Patmos, away from the churches). Darby is wrong.

. with the dative emphasizing position; (1) of place on, in (MK 6.39)[/quot]

Mark 6:39 "sit on/upon the green grass", not "sin in the green grass.", except insofar as "in" means "on". John nor the angel were sitting on top of churches, as one an sin on grass. In Revelation 22:16, the dative does not emphasize position.

 

[John of Japan]

Thank you. It's settled then. Revelation says the things in Revelation are on/upon the church, not that the angel is testifying to John in the churches (which make no sense, as the angel testified to John on the Island of Patmos, away from the churches). Darby is wrong.

Alas, once again your lack of Greek knowledge has tripped you up. In Rev. 22:16, word "you" is ὑμῖν (humin), which is plural. So the message is not to John "in the churches" but to the people "in the churches."

Once again, Darby translated correctly--that is, unless you think the verse talks about people sitting on a church building--which would be problematic since there were no church buildings then and ekklesia never referred to a building anyway!

You know, if you have enough interest in NT Greek to keep posting about it, even posting the Greek words in Greek (instead of transliterating), surely you have enough interest to actually study it and get things right. The above plural you,ὑμῖν, is really quite an elementary point. The personal pronouns are in Chapter 9 in David Alan Black's beginning grammar, the one I teach from. The students learn in halfway through the first semester. So get to work, find yourself a Greek course and come back when you've studied it enough not to make basic mistakes. I mean this kindly.

 

[John of Japan]

Let me say here that there is a missing element in this thread, and that is the timeline. For someone to say Darby translated his NT with a dispensational presupposition, the question must be answered: When did Darby become a dispensationalist? Was it before or after he translated the Scripture?

The problem with this? You may have to read Darby's writings first, which are turgid and boring and very obtuse. I've never read them and I teach a course on it! And I don't follow Darby's ecclesiology in particular, but other of his teaching and methodology such as his brand of Zionism. In fact, according to Frank Mead's Handbook of Denominations (6th ed., p. 70), the only group which really follows Darby are the Brethren I group, which “does not accept members from other groups unless and until they renounce all affiliation with those groups."

 

[McCree79]

Darby's translation is available for free on Olive Tree....just FYI

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