Dave Hunt: What Love Is This?

[Rippon]

Hunt and James White put out a joint effort called Debating Calvinism:Five Points,Two Views. One can tell how Hunt does not respond to anything White brings up. It is so one-sided.

Hunt was cut out of the same cloth as the currently living Norm Geisler.

By the way,I met Dave Hunt many years ago. I was the only non-minister at a gathering of Fundamentalists-types for a weekend. He was a nice man. But so wrong on important biblical truths.

 

[DrJamesAch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tw-Q41TKBxQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player

That video by James White is a perfect example of how dishonest and tactless he can be.

The first few minutes of the video is James White merely stroking his own ego about debating Dave Hunt.

The middle half of the video is James White actually REAFFIRMING what White and other Calvinists had accused him of. That basically, unless you are a Calvinist, you can't understand Calvinism. It's the same tactic that Jehovah's Witnesses use, you'll never really understand it unless you join it and believe it.

And the last half James ends with an audio that is supposed to "prove" Dave Hunt was contradicting himself. Now note first of all that James White did not play the whole conversation in context when Dave and James talked about the Reformers. I have the original , and what James White accused Dave of was misquoting the REFORMERS, NOT CALVINISTS AS A WHOLE because White was trying to separate himself (as many here do) from Calvinism

SO then Dave replied he didn't know much about the REFORMED THEOLOGIANS, and the latter clip that James played was Dave affirming that he had studied CALVINISM thoroughly. James White spliced together dialogue about 2 entirely different angles.

That is typical James White slight of hand hoping that someone doesn't catch on.

 

[Aaron]

People love to say that, but it just isn't true. Calvinism is a system to explain the Gospel, not the Gospel itself. The Gospel never changes.

Neither does the Person of Christ, nor the nature of the atonement, but Calvinists and noncalvinists do not present the same ones.

 

[DrJamesAch]

Neither does the Person of Christ, nor the nature of the atonement, but Calvinists and noncalvinists do not present the same ones.

What's ironic is Calvinists call Calvinism the gospel, that a believer is determined or not determined to believe it, but yet Calvinists admit that it takes months and years to understand it. So in other words, it takes months and years for a person to really be saved which means that Calvinists are really Arminian.

 

[Rippon]

SO then Dave replied he didn't know much about the REFORMED THEOLOGIANS, and the latter clip that James played was Dave affirming that he had studied CALVINISM thoroughly. James White spliced together dialogue about 2 entirely different angles.

In a six month period of time Hunt went from knowing nothing of the Reformers to becoming such an expert that many Calvinists didn't know as much about them as he knew. quite the boast!

 

[DrJamesAch]

In a six month period of time Hunt went from knowing nothing of the Reformers to becoming such an expert that many Calvinists didn't know as much about them as he knew. quite the boast!

LIke I said-and you are again repeating James White' error-the last statement White played of Hunt was Hunt's statement on what he has studied OVERALL about Calvinism, and the former was about specific Reformers that attempt separate themselves from Calvinism by calling it Reformed Theology. Many on here that disagree with YOU do the same thing, call themselves Reformed but don't subscribe to John Calvin.

Thus there were 2 different points of view being discussed and James White blended them both together.

However, there is another fallacy here. You are beginning with the premise that Dave Hunt can't possibly understand Reformed Theology in 6 months. WHY NOT? Perhaps Dave had a photographic memory and an accelerated learning capability that many others don't possess. Call that arrogance if you will, no more than what the Calvinist displays by claiming he doesn't understand "LIKE WE DO".

You can't prove that Hunt DID NOT understand it in six months.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Neither does the Person of Christ, nor the nature of the atonement, but Calvinists and noncalvinists do not present the same ones.

That's quite an accusation. Have any facts to back that up?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

That's quite an accusation. Have any facts to back that up?

I dont understand your question MD. Aaron indicated the different atonement doctrines. What else should he be backing up?

While we are on the subject though, lets add the instance by non Calvinists that the sovereignty of God's grace must in some way be limited by the freedom of human choice.

 

[Mexdeaf]

I dont understand your question MD. Aaron indicated the different atonement doctrines. What else should he be backing up?

While we are on the subject though, lets add the instance by non Calvinists that the sovereignty of God's grace must in some way be limited by the freedom of human choice.

Perhaps I am not understanding Aaron's point. I was under the impression that he was postulating that Calvinists present "another Gospel" and "another Christ".

 

[beameup]

Hunt points out that Catholicism relies heavily upon Augustine.
Hunt points out that Calvinism relies heavily upon Augustine.

But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty,
so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ. - 2 Corinthians 11:3

 

[webdog]

I dont understand your question MD. Aaron indicated the different atonement doctrines. What else should he be backing up?

While we are on the subject though, lets add the instance by non Calvinists that the sovereignty of God's grace must in some way be limited by the freedom of human choice.

That's a non sequitur. Freedom to choose in no way limits his sovereignty or the atonement.

 

[Aaron]

Perhaps I am not understanding Aaron's point. I was under the impression that he was postulating that Calvinists present "another Gospel" and "another Christ".

Calvinists present the biblical Christ and the biblical Gospel. Noncalvinists do not.

 

[Aaron]

That's a non sequitur. Freedom to choose in no way limits his sovereignty or the atonement.

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

Wait-wait! I wanna try one:

The sun rises in the West!
​

Weee! Making up one's own reality is fun. I could get used to this:

Marriage means I can have my neighbor's wife.
​

Well, not that I'd want the wife of my neighbor to the North, but . . .

 

[DHK]

Calvinists present the biblical Christ and the biblical Gospel. Noncalvinists do not.

And the nonCalvinist has the same opinion opposite opinion doesn't he, except that he is not so arrogantly dogmatic. He believes that he has the Biblical gospel and not Calvinism. You gave no Scriptural support for your statement.

But then maybe Rick Warren is right. He is somewhat dogmatic too, isn't he?

Pastor Rick Warren Says Allah and God Are One in the Same

Read more: http://godfatherpolitics.com/3962/p...ah-and-god-are-one-in-the-same/#ixzz2VvsTQQkH
​

 

[Benjamin]

That's a non sequitur. Freedom to choose in no way limits his sovereignty or the atonement.

Now Webdog!, ...you know the Hyper-Cals here can’t forego their systematic view that hinges on “Deterministic Sovereignty" from T to P. Regardless of the consequences of such a view on God’s True Character and Righteous Judgment, therefore, they are willing to die on the hill of "deterministic" sovereignty in order to maintain their denial that they had any other choice but to believe and be forced subject to “God’s despotism” - without any God given volition or reasoning abilities of their own.

P.S. Dave Hunt is right, its not about love for the Calvinists, its about deterministic power...

 

[webdog]

Calvinists present the biblical Christ and the biblical Gospel. Noncalvinists do not.

This would mean only calvinists are saved, a violation of BB rules...but who are you to care about such things as rules, grace, law, etc. You have your RCC / Islam inspired soteriology to fall back on.

 

[Alive in Christ]

From the front page...

It is tragic to see a man whose ministry I once respected so biased in his hatred of the doctrines of grace

Hunt has no issue with the the doctrines of grace.

The ((true)) doctrines of grace are not found in calvinism, but rather a convaluted counterfiet of the true.

 

[quantumfaith]

I will bet the NSA is having OH SO much fun monitoring this board.

 

[DrJamesAch]

From the front page...



Hunt has no issue with the the doctrines of grace.

The ((true)) doctrines of grace are not found in calvinism, but rather a convaluted counterfiet of the true.

It is so ironic how many of the Calvinist arguments are similar with the liberals of our day. How many times have we heard from the homosexual community that when a Christian offers the Biblical definition of marriage, that they are immediately accused of "hate"?

While I did not always agree with some of Hunt's views, he has always been a gracious man. The first thing James White and his ilk did when attempting to refute Hunt's book/video, was attacked Hunt's honesty and morals, and that is a consistent trend I see in how the Calvinists handle all of their opponents. James White first wrote that Hunt's book was "horrific", and yet not once did Dave Hunt ever attack his adversaries with such person vitriol.

Such vitriol marks the true 'spirit' of Calvinism which can best be attributed to the logical outcome of such a man-made philosophical system.

 

[Benjamin]

I will bet the NSA is having OH SO much fun monitoring this board.

I suspect the recent biased stealth-like flyby enforcement of rules which were used to ban HoS was done through dictatorship tendencies with likely Islamic types of soteriological leanings. Maybe they should check that out…