Deaconesses???

[chandler]

Well the fact is that it seems so many people make opinions and formulate their own doctrines based on opinion. I just don't understand...

1) why in SBC chuches so the deacons have the authority that they do; seems their roles have evolved into a position of more authority.

2) why in SBC churches we try to simplify matters; this is a complicated issue, not one I think we have answered well.
3)I do feel the best translation of 1Tim3:11 says "women must likewise be dignified..etc"
4)Why I would be classified as a liberal if taking
a position that is not so concrete!

 

[Dr. Bob]

chandler, you LIBERAL!!

There, thought you'd feel better if someone called you that.

Seriously, I've asked the same questions about the SBC and other churches that have deacon BOARDS who are "ordained" (what a joke) and serve as ruling council.

 

[SaggyWoman]

I have no problem with deaconesses.

I have never been in a church that have had them "officially" titled that.

Many women that I know serve without the title.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by rjprince:
GB93433,

There have been time I have wanted to SUE my computer!

Scripture provides a clear pattern for deacons! Your point?

Scripture does make a clear pattern for deacons. So what is your point? Scripture makes a clear point for female deacons too. If you read the following clearly you will notice they do not have the same function nor authority.

f. There is plenty of evidence that the early church utilized women in ministry. There were women whose responsibility was to work with other women and children. They performed pastoral work with the sick and the poor and helped at baptism. From the earliest times deaconesses visited the sick, acted as door-keepers at the women's entrance to the church, kept order among church women, taught females in preparation for baptism and acted as sponsors for homeless children. They also carried official messages. There was a clearer line drawn between the sexes than there is today. Women deacons were not on the same level as men deacons. They could not teach and minister to mixed groups of people or men, and they were not ordained.

For the first 1200 years of Christianity there is loads of evidence of woman deacons in the church. However, the Western Roman Catholic church never had them. Whereas the eastern church did

Almost every country outside of the U.S. has women deacons in Baptist churches.

g. The emergence of deaconesses is unclear. But in the third and fourth centuries the office deaconess developed greatly. In a letter dated 112 A.D. Governor Pliny wrote a letter to the emperor Trajan. In it he mentions a couple of "deaconesses."
(Book X, XCVI, 8, 289)

h. Explain the relationship and lines of communication between the male pastor and female in the congregation then.
pastor-deacon-deaconess-female

Do you not understand the lines of communication when I wrote, "h. Explain the relationship and lines of communication between the male pastor and female in the congregation then.
pastor-deacon-deaconess-female"?

It is still that way in a number of those countries. Amazing how many much older countries that were around during the time of Christ have deaconesses and still operate the same today as they did then but the very young US calls them wrong.In the NT and in a number of those countries a pastor never talks directly with a woman in the congregation. He goes through a deacon and then a deaconess unlike the US.

What makes you think you understand scripture better than those in the early church in 112 A.D.?

 

[mioque]

rjprince
"There is no question as to whether or not the word is diakonos is the Greek."
"
Reread my post, I typed the Dutch word for deaconness diakones, not the Koine Greek word for servant diakonos. It was only an aside about the most widely used Bible in my country being a translation in the local language.

"Since those holding the office are required to be the "husband of one wife" or "a one woman man" it is not a Biblically feasible interpretation. "
"
And you are projecting early 21st century politically correct American grammar rules on a text originally written in a language were the male form is used to refer to a group that is either all male, or mixed. Modern French still follows that convention. The only thing that text says is that a deacon has to be monogamous.

 

[gb93433]

Originally posted by chandler:

1) why in SBC chuches so the deacons have the authority that they do; seems their roles have evolved into a position of more authority.

2) why in SBC churches we try to simplify matters; this is a complicated issue, not one I think we have answered well.

It's partly because the pastors in the SBC have an average tenure in each church of about two years. Pastors don't stay very long but the deacons do.

The SBC tries to simplify matters because so many are unwilling to dig and study. Those who do dig and study are often labelled as outcasts because they don't agree with the simpletons who like to give easy sermons. They are kind of like easy listening music--sweet and it puts you to sleep. Some like to shout stomp and spit sharing loads of SYI (Share Your Ignorance).

Quite some years ago I consulted with a local pastor (who had been a trustee at both Baylor and SWBTS) and a DOM about a passage I was going to preach on. I was preaching through the book of 1 Cor. at the time. Both of them told me they would not preach the passage. I asked them what to do instead. They said just skip it. I told them the people would notice if I did and I also told them if I don't know then I should at least be honest and tell the congregation "I don't know."

 

[mioque]

"What about where the Bible teaches that the woman is to be subject to the man"
"
That is were seperate Elders and Deacons come in.

"yes deacons are an authority"
"
Indeed, the threat of putting salt in the Elder's coffee has served me well in keeping them under my thumb.

What?

 

[R. Charles Blair]

Mioque - "The place for the salt is in the soup" - not in the coffee! Best - Chas - Ro. 8:28