Deacon's that accept Christ

Its true but the Lord said there is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed and Jim Swagarrt will never be able to take as many widow's social security checks as he did before.

He was sorry he got caught IMO

 

I don't know where you got the idea that the church is somehow carrying on with "false pretense." Is the exercise of grace somehow false pretense?

Nothing is false, not anymore. Now it is time for the church to minister to the person who has just been converted and work carefully and gently to resolve the situation.

That's rather presumptous. God sometimes calls people in a way that doesn't quite fit with our standard methods. There is a real possibility that God may well call and ordain that person when they are converted. (Think of the apostle Paul.)

However, that doesn't mean that we carry on as we always have. There needs to be a path of discipleship and spiritual training for that person.

Who says that I'm opposed to doing that? I just don't make a blanket rule that we immediately strip that person of their position, "credentials", and "ordination" when they come to faith. Based on your earlier comments, I know you probably have never dealt with such a situation, but I've been part of one so I may have a better perspective.

That's an apple's and oranges comparison. We're dealing with someone we know, not a stranger.

 

But that's pretty much irrelevant to this conversation since the real person I am talking about (as well as the metaphorical persons were are talking about) have not involved themselves in flagrant sexual sin like Swaggart. They were simply lost.

 

I am not telling you how to take care of it Baptist Believer. You first stated that the way I would handle it might be to harsh and maybe to you it is.

I am sure you have heard of a "calling". To me this person was tired of the false situation he had found himself in and wanted the right way. If you keep him in the same position, you are not allowing that person who wants to come clean, but cannot do do so, because the church wants him to continue to try and be something he is not.
I know he could not of been ordained, for that is of God, and He don't ordain to deaconship the world.

You say, you are dealing with someone you know. He has also let you know he is a very "honest" person, and someone who does what he did knows, will be consequences to his position, I am sure.

To me, if someone is a new convert, I am not going to put him in a deaconship role. You stated, would I throw him out on the street. I am not that mean, I would do what I could to help him, but I would not be a party of starting all over again,what had happened to him once before in his life. He might become one of the best deacons the church has, but he would come the same way the others had.
If that is too harsh or conservative for anyone, then that is just me and how I understand the word of God. God Bless,

 

2 Corinthians 11
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.

HankD

 

The baptist church I pastor has been around 50 years and some of the charter members tell me there was a pastor in the past who got saved at a revival. He thought he was saved.

 

Elias Keach famously was converted under his own preaching!

 

Elias Keach was an evil man who pretended to be a preacher and became convicted while he was imitating being a preacher. He went to one who was a preacher who told him to go to Christ and repent and be saved, of which he did. He then was baptized and made a member of the church, who later ordained him to be a preacher.

He was one of those preachers who was posted by Hank D when he was first convicted of his sins. In other words one of Satan's preachers, for he was evil.

 

Of course he remains as a deacon. He has been serving Christ faithfully for many years. The only reason his recent experience is being viewed as "being saved" is the theology that people are choosing to use to understand it. Putting it in simpler and less theologically loaded terms, the man has long been a Christian believer and a servant of the church ... who just recently had a spiritual experience unlike anything previously. Why do we interpret that as "being saved?" Why is it only supposed to happen once?

 

The man himself felt he was not saved before. Would that make a difference with you amity? I doubt if your church would let him remain as a deacon.

 

The Word of God tells us that His Spirit bears witness with our spirit that we are the Sons of God.

If he felt he was not saved and the Spirit did not assure him at that time that he was saved, then he was not saved.

Nothing hard about that.

God's Spirit is always with His Children. He said He would not leave us Comfortless. The Spirit would have assured the man of his salvation.

 

I am really pretty sure we would. He didn't really "get saved" that second time, did he?

the difference is of course if he were a member of a PB church he would not be conceptualizing his experience as "getting saved" to begin with.

 

I understand he made it clear he was just now "getting saved". We have had members do that several times. They came in over sympathy or other reasons rather than the right one before and had lived all those years that way, but one day they felt they really received Jesus in their lives, and He really saved them.

 

This reminds me of question "Is so-and-so really sincere?"
On what day of the week? And in what hour of the day?
Many times I have been lifted up to a new increase in faith, or of a more intimate closeness to God, or a higher degree of committment than previously. Could I say each time "well, I wasn't really saved until now."?

You really have to be from a church that has the belief that one somehow "gets saved" in order to interpret experience as salvation. If not coming from such a background, the subjective experience will just be of God dealing with you in some new way.

 

Who am I to question another's heart?

 

That's right, if you cannot discern the heart of a man that tells you that he knows Christ to be a liar that he is then obviously you are not a qualified pastor.

That is what you mean, is it not?

 

If someone told you they had never been saved, would you tell them they are wrong and that they are indeed saved? I don't really know what you are saying amity.