Deacons who don't/won't pray in public

here's my two cents worth as a deacon:

we're all different body parts. I am a fearless public speaker
and I am not in the least bit afraid to preach when the Pastor
leaves town. However, I'm very bashfull at confrontation.

For instance, I'm not the deacon you'd send if someone was
beside-himself angry with the Pastor. Nor would I be the one
to do a suicide intervention. But some of the other deacons I
serve with CAN do those kinds of thing because God has given
them those gifts.

So when people say "nice prayer" or "good sermon.... I don't know
how you could get up in front of people like you do." I just want to
reply "oh yeah? I can't listen to a disgruntled member like you can."

So this guy who can't pray in public....so be it. Maybe he should
ask God to give him the ability. If it serves God's purpose, God
will make him able to pray aloud in public. And maybe He won't.

 

Well said. I think we have to be careful about judging people because they don't do this or that, or aren't gifted in this way or that way. If it's not condemned in scripture, we shouldn't be condemning one another.

 

I disagreed with many of your points.

Webdog, Amy, and Jkdbuck76 echoed my thoughts, thus saving me time in replying to you.

The topic is whether this person should serve as deacon though he doesn't pray in public. I believe he should.

Worse than a deacon refraining from praying in public, is someone who takes it upon themselves to develop a faulty method for "determining" the reasons why another believer does or doesn't pray in public.

Just my two cents worth

Thanks for your reply

joe

 

I personally wish that more people would opt out of public prayer. Too many have public prayer habits (that's me) that are incredibly annoying. Things like saying "Lord" or "Father" every other phrase bother me greatly. I know that sounds very shallow and it probably is but I would rather hear a simple prayer of someone who is actually talking to God and not to all of the people around him.
I commend the person who opts out, knowing his limitations.

 

Unfortunately, many public prayers are pre orchestrated. I know I have been guilty of it. I would rather have this deacon's private prayer be from the heart, than a scripted one in public.

 

I don't have to be to have an opinion on it, do I?
Must not, because you do and here it is....:laugh:

 

Nobody has said it is required, Scripturally or otherwise. I'm only talking about the motivations for "can't/won't" do it.

If someone avoids public prayer for pride reasons, isn't it obvious there's a "problem" to "overcome?" Maybe he has another reason, but that's a common one.

 

But could only point to my status as a non-psychologist to dismissively and non-specifically disagree with.... :sleeping_2:

They didn't "echo" them, there wasn't anything to "echo" until they came up with them. You're echoing them. Jkdbuck had some valid points there.

Based on what?
You can make that decision not knowing anything about his motivations for not praying in public?
And without even being interested in presenting the idea that motivations are even important?
Do motivations not even matter any more?

I said it would be best for his pastor to decide.
I never said I was determining anything, only presenting some options that too many others seem all ready to gloss over in the interest of a quick reply answer.....

If you are a pastoral minister, a lot of what you have to deal with are motivations. As has been said here many other times, people pray with the wrong motivations, they don't pray with the wrong motivations, they pray with the right motivations, and they do not pray with the right motivations. It just seems shortsighted to automatically say "Yes he should" without considering "why he doesn't" or even thinking that it might be an opportunity to help a deacon work on something that he isn't wonderfully and masterfully gifted at doing. If it turns out that he can't do it, that's fine too, at least he tried, and maybe he can help someone try to learn a new part of worship in the future...

 

Let me share some thoughts out of my experience as a radio and television newscaster for 42 years.

I have conducted thousands of interviews, both short ones for the news and long ones for half-hour programs. A great number of them were public folks (politicians, office-holders, organization leaders and the like.) Many were just plain citizens with no experience on TV and especially being interviewed.

For the latter, all shared a common fear: the fear of going blank and forgetting what they wanted to say, or simply losing their train of thought. Many times, right before the tape rolled, I would get the question, "If I mess up can we do it again?"

They were in unfamiliar territory. I made it a practice to ease their minds before the interviews, often telling them exactly what I was going to ask, and promising to rescue them if I detected that they were struggling.

I would guess that many people who don't pray in public are fearful that they will go blank. Reassurance that they are among friends; that nobody is grading their prayer; and that they can make it as short as they wish may help alleviate that concern.

Even so, it is a huge hurdle to jump. They can know their fear is irrational and it makes no difference. But I know a couple of men who have overcome it, so there's always hope.

 

Public Prayer

I visited a church once that had pre-arrainged for a certain member to pray. After giveing a five minate "testimony" he finally began to pray. This prayer seemed to go on and on, even longer than the testimony. Finally, I looked up when I heard a strange noise over the sound system, just in time to see him shuffing his prayer that ended up being about 5 pages long. Needless to say, I never went back to that church again.

While I am all for public prayer, I remind people that it is simply speaking to God, our Father. If we can talk to our earthly dad publicly, then we should be able to talk to our heavenly Dad publicly. I can't tell you how many times I will be with a group of other believers and they do some kind of stupid thumbs up game to see who "has to pray". I will always stop them and say that since I enjoy talking to Dad every chance I get, I will volunteer.

If someone is uncomfortable with public prayer and not a deacon, they probably just need some discipleship in the area of prayer. Some people are very mature Christ-Followers in most areas of their lives, except in the area of public prayer. They simply refuse to pray publicly, alright, let them be that way as long as it is not a stumbling block to others. If they are a deacon, then I would say it is time for the pastor to spend some personal one on one time with this person to try and help him overcome this fear. That is basically what it is, fear, that keeps him from public prayer. Usually, they will define public prayer as anything out loud and is usually symptomatic of a very aneamic personal prayer life. If the pastor can draw the person out then there is a better than normal chance that he can begin to develop a personal prayer life.

It is also a matter of personal freedom in the sense that not being able to pray publicly is very binding in a persons life. If we can help him overcome then there is a chance that the straps of bondage can be loosed from his life. There are other implications to the freedom, if one feels bound in prayer then they could also feel bound in the area of personal testimony and witnessing.

I don't think that we have a spiritual leg to stand on in regards to requiring it of a deacon. I do think that it is an insight to spiritual growth and maturity. Grow him in this area.

 

I would hope someone stating something as a matter of fact would have some formal training in the area. If not, an IMO would be in order, as there are some who read these public boards and will take to heart something stated as "fact". What I stated was not opinion, but what I have come to learn from study and personal testimonies.

While I admit to being a glutton for punishment as a Cleveland sports fan, I wold like Scripture stating that the preference for teams or foods is spiritual in nature as you contest.

Chemistry and chemicals are not scientific?!? What are they then, history or mathematics? Think about your answer again...

Oh, really? You woldn't consider a man standing on the ledge of a roof ready to end his life due to chemical imbalances in the brain an "emergency situation"?

Who says that all problems have to be fixed outside of medicine? The psychologists I know all have the ability to write prescriptions...and do. I'm not talking about "my daddy was never there for me as a child" psychosis, but an acutal, physical mental impairment requiring medical treatement.

 

Yeah,

that's another anoying thing: people rambling on and on and on and on
when they pray. Keep it short and sweet....and don't preach when
you pray either.

"Dear Heavenly Father,

You said in Acts Chapter 3 that....blah blah blah...and there THREE THINGS
WE CAN DO IN ORDER TO.... blah blah blah.... Spurgeon once put it like
this....blah blah blah.....

Amen."

C'mon. You've all heard it before. :laugh:

 

I continue to find it amazing that so many people are concerned with what other people are praying, instead of sincerely praying themselves.

 

My opinion was formed the same way your opinion was.

Everything is spiritual for believers.
Prov. 3:6 "in all your ways acknowledge him and he will make your paths straight."
Prov. 5:21 "For a man's ways are in full view of the Lord, and he examines all his paths."
1 Cor. 10:31 "So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it for the glory of God."

Chemical imbalances cannot be proven scientifically or even measured scientifically, they can just be guessed at and medicine "tried" on them.
They are involved in the world of science, and they sound "sciency" but they aren't "scientific."

You can't throw him a pill and have him ingest it and it make him automatically better like you can fix a broken arm or one of the other physical examples you gave.

Is this a pastoral ministries forum or a psychologist confab?
I would say that a minister should look at answers outside of medicine first, especially when it isn't an "emergency." The deacon not wanting to pray, which was the original problem before the extremes starting getting mixed in, isn't an "emergency."

I mean all of that IMO except for the Bible references.

 

Quote by ichthys "The deacon not wanting to pray, which was the original problem before the extremes starting getting mixed in, isn't an "emergency."


The deacon not wanting to pray is not a problem, though you have continued to attempt to make it one throughout this thread.

I had a response to you all typed out until someone interrupted me, then poof, it disappeared. So, yes, others did echo my statements quite well. You don't know the Deacon, yet question his motivations labeling them "prideful". A common reason (according to you) of why someone refrains from public prayer. We have no reason to believe this Deacon did not rightfully earn his title, nor that his pastor is anything but a godly man. Even webdog's motivations were questioned when he attempted to explain it regarding himself.

Maybe this was not your intention, but I would suggest you look into the log in your own eye before assuming the negative.

 

Amen Joe :thumbs:

My fear of public speaking...according to icthys...is spiritual in nature. The man knows nothing about me or this deacon in question, but can gauge our spirituality on that sole fact...

 

This is an amazing discussion.

Bless Deacons' hearts. Deacons have thankless jobs. Bless staff members hearts! Theirs are also thankless jobs.

It's tough taking on those leadership roles when you don't/won't walk on water . . .

 

You've based this post on assumptions and things I did not say.
I didn't assume the negative in this man any more than I'd assume the negative in any man, even ones I do not know.
I do not remember making any charges against "this Deacon" directly. I know I have said that his pastor would have to be the one to "grade his spirituality," so I'm pretty sure I've not assumed to do that myself, even unintentionally. I know I have said that there could be other reasons he does not want to pray in public besides pride.

I did say that, for people generally speaking, pride is a spiritual problem and everything Christians do has a spiritual component. Not many people have admitted that pride could be a factor, and that's all right.
I know that I also did say that understanding his motivations, or anyone else's would be important to understand if he has a "problem" or not.
Or maybe it's not important for the pastor to even question anything about his deacons' motivations at all, or use it as an opportunity to train him in any way, because besides a couple of tangents that's been the gist of what I've said.

In case it wasn't clear, that was the gist.

 

Why you got to skip to the extremes, man?
I never claimed to "gauge your spirituality on that sole fact."
I do not remember even claiming to "gauge your spirituality" at all.
I don't even see where you "gauged" that from.

I told you I had a fear of public speaking and realized it was pride because I was afraid of the "public" part more than the "speaking" and it's still a problem but there isn't as much "fear". If you think it's the actual act of speaking you are afraid of, instead of the public, well so be it, you're the anomaly.

Yeah I said that, like the Bible says, every decision a Christian makes or does not make is a spiritual issue. No, all of them do not have eternal consequences, but they are still spiritual in nature, because we are spiritual in nature, even football and what car you drive.
All I can do is encourage you to think about the same.

 

The first time I preached, it was in a school house, where the pulpit or lecturn was portable and sat on a desk. I had a twenty minute sermon prepared and it lasted all of ten minutes. I grasped the sides of the lecturn so tightly that when I finished the sermon and decided to have a hymn, I lifted the entire lecturn and turned to pick up hymn book and dropped the lecturn on the floor.

This is how we are made, folks. We have emotions and fears, and neither is related to our spiritual values. I know many great preachers through history who were literally ill before preaching. Was it our spritual shortcoming, or maybe our absolute fear of presenting God's word, and the responsibility that accompanies that? To this day I fast on Sundays because I couldn't eat.

I would be greatly afraid of the man who can enter the pulpit without fear than a man who could not speak, when representing an holy God before men.

As I mentioned in my first post, even public prayer is a learning experience, and perhaps this man needed a gradual education along these lines. Then some just can't speak before large crowds. If everyone could address large crowds, we wouldn't have a few who are preachers, a few who are singers, a few who are vocal prayer warriors. We would all be bold at all times, and perhaps that would be a spiritual shortcoming.

"Lord, teach us to pray..." It is a learning process, according to scripture.

Cheers,

Jim