Dead Faith as taught by the Apostle James

[Moriah]

You have NEVER confessed you would use the SAME EXACT WORDS Jesus used if that question was asked you. Instead, in every single one of your responses you refuse to use the precise words Jesus used. You change his words and use your own explanation. You are lying again and everyone on this forum knows you are lying and the proof you are lying is YOU CANNOT FIND ONE OF YOUR POSTS that ever respond to this question where you acknolwege you WOULD USE CHRIST'S PRECISE WORDS to answer the same question if you were asked! Find your post where you acknowledge that? I dare you! You have been lying and you are still lying.

I do not have to answer a fool according to his folly.

LOOK, no one would come up to me humbly asking what to do to have eternal life, but deep down they are really saying they are better than God is.

I have answered you. I have not changed Jesus' words. You need to back off me now with this line of questioning.

 

[Fred's Wife]

There is a fountain filled with blood drawn from Emmanuel's veins; and sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains. Lose all their guilty stains, lose all their guilty stains; and sinners plunged beneath that flood lose all their guilty stains.

2. The dying thief rejoiced to see that fountain in his day; and there may I, though vile as he, wash all my sins away. Wash all my sins away, wash all my sins away; and there may I, though vile as he, wash all my sins away.

3. Dear dying Lamb, thy precious blood shall never lose its power till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more. Be saved, to sin no more, be saved, to sin no more; till all the ransomed church of God be saved, to sin no more.

4. E'er since, by faith, I saw the stream thy flowing wounds supply, redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die. And shall be till I die, and shall be till I die; redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die.

William Cowper who lived in the 1700's, under the strain of the ministry, went insane. Three times he tried to commit suicide. Sometime after the third attempt he sat down and wrote this hymn that we know so well today. As the Bible teaches, Cowper wrote

"E'er since by faith, I saw the stream thy flowing wounds supply, redeeming love has been my theme, and shall be till I die."

Salvation is by faith, not of works, not of oneself, but by faith and faith alone. It is the gift of God to be received without effort, without any type of work or obedience whatsoever. Just receive the gift by faith. That is what Cowper did, and that is where he found peace. He was a friend of the former slave trader John Newton.

You need to examine John 6:29 carefully.
What shall we DO to have eternal life.
The only thing they could DO was to believe.
It was the only "work" because it wasn't a work. It was a play on words.
Study the passage carefully.

There Is A Fountain is one of my favorite hymns! Did you know that you can also sing the words of Amazing Grace to the tune of There Is A Fountain? Thank you for sharing that information about William Cowper.

 

[Moriah]

Do not forget DHK, YOU said drinking is a work.

I am glad that you can see that.

It is a light and easy work to obey Jesus.

Just like believing is a work, though a light work at that!

You think obeying does nothing; however, the Word of God says we have to drink the Holy Spirit.

John 7:37 On the last and greatest day of the Feast, Jesus stood and said in a loud voice, "If anyone is thirsty, let him come to me and drink.

Read what Jesus says in John 7:37. We come to Jesus. Is that not an action? Yes it is. We believe in Jesus, and we drink.

Again, do not be afraid to tell a person to get Jesus’ teachings and obey them that is what we do to be saved, and that is what we do to show that we are saved.

 

[DHK]

DHK,
I do not go by man’s wisdom, or poems, no matter how craftily put together.

I do think that you meant well by posting that poem, as if to tell me that I do not have to do anything to remain in Jesus’ love, except it is not true.
I love obeying Jesus. I am miserable if I do not obey Jesus. It is not a rest for me to sin.

Cowper wrote 15 hymns that are commonly sung as well as other poetry such as:

GOD moves in a mysterious way,
His wonders to perform;
He plants his footsteps in the sea,
And rides upon the storm.

YOU YOURSELF said drinking is a work.

I wasn't speaking of Jesus spiritual words. Eating my hamburger is considered a work. Don't take my words out of their context or you make yourself a liar. Have you read Rev.21:8 lately?

Believing is like drinking, and they are WORKS.

Believing or having faith is not a work. If you say it is then you deny the words of Jesus in John 6 and the words of Paul in Romans 4. Why would you do that?

Jesus says the work of God required is to believe.

Yes he does, to the nullification of all else. That means everything else is not work, or to put it another way everything else is work and believing is not. It was a play on words.
John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Jesus said don't labor for that which perishes (good works).
They said, What shall we DO that we might WORK the WORKS of God?
Jesus said that the only work of God is to believe on Him.
All other works were void and unnecessary--as filthy rags.
Why? Because in reality, faith is not a work.
This was a play on words.

Jesus' works are not hard works, they are EASY and LIGHT, see Matthew 11:30.

Don't pervert the Scriptures!!
Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
--Twice he says "my yoke" not your works. It has nothing to do with your works.

We are to believe and obey Jesus to be saved, and to remain saved.

Never does the Bible say that, but it does say:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
The only requirement is to "believe."
Why do you add to the word of God?
Do you know what Rev.22:18 says?

All Jesus’ teachings are easy and light works.

Where does it say that? That again is a perversion of God's Word.
Peter says about Paul's writings that some were hard sayings, difficult to understand. That is the opposite of what you just said.

The works in the Old Testament were hard.

The law was and still is difficult to keep. We still have the Ten Commandments and you can't keep the Ten Commandments either.

If you can do the work of believing and it be acceptable to you,
Then you can do all the works Jesus tells you to do.

No man can keep all the commands. If you say you can, you have 1John 1:8,10 to answer to.

If you can do the work of believing before you are saved, then do not be afraid to do more works.

Believing is not a work. Believers do works because they are saved.

Now answer this.
Are you of the Church of Christ?

 

[The Biblicist]

I do not have to answer a fool according to his folly.

One characteristic of a "fool" is lying and you have been lying and still are lying and the absolute proof is that you cannot even find one post where you addressed my question and said you could or would use the EXACT WORDS Jesus used in response to this precise question! That was my question which YOU NEVER ANSWERED but avoided, reworded, reinterpreted but never asnwered.

LOOK, no one would come up to me humbly asking what to do to have eternal life, but deep down they are really saying they are better than God is.

You cannot even represent the words of the rich young ruler correctly or my words! Nobody said he was "BETTER" than God is! That is your misintepretation of my words - I never said such a thing! I said he regarded himself EQUAL to Christ and he was IGNORANT that Christ was God in the flesh. Do you know the difference between the word "better" and the word "equal"???? You change my words and put words in my mouth I never once uttered.

Neither did the ruler ask "what to do to have eternal life" as you represent him saying. He said "what GOOD THING shall I do to inherit eternal life" and that very question asserted that he believed he could EARN eternal life by doing "GOOD" things! He attributed to himself the very same thing he attributed to Christ - INHERENT GOODNESS! That is why Christ asked him "why callest thou me good?" Don't you understand the reason for that question? He was claming to be EQUALLY good as Jesus and yet he did not know Jesus was God and he did not know what God's standard for "good" is.


He is just like YOU! You believe God's standard for "good" is SIN! You don't understand that the transgression of the Law is sin (1 Jn. 3:6) and when you violate but ONE POINT you have violated EVERY POINT of the Law (James 2:10-11) and therefore the only way NOT TO SIN is to be SINLESS and KEEP EVERY POINT of the Law and he is talking about the TEN COMMANDMENTS in James 2:10-11.

You believe that coming short of the glory of God is "good" when it is sin! YOu come short of the glory of God when you are not "perfect EVEN AS your Father in heaven IS PERFECT."

If you understood God's standard of "good" you would NEVER make the claim that this young man did when he claimed he could do "good" enough things to INHERIT to EARN eternal life! That is what you are woefully and terribly ignorant of. You are just like that young man in your thinking of being and doing "good" enough to inherent eternal life!

I have answered you. I have not changed Jesus' words.

Oh yeah? Point to just one post of yours where you acknowledge you would use the EXACT SAME WORDS as Christ for that EXACT SAME QUESTION???? That is the question I asked and you have NEVER ONCE answered it! Instead you have changed his word every single time and substituted your INTERPRETATION of his words!

 

[The Biblicist]

Readers,

Moriah will not directly answer my questions but will continue to respond the way he is responding because he is practicing his old Roman Catholic habits which are here stated in his own words:

The steps from the Catholics are usually to dodge the question, then deny it, then actually fight against the Word of God.

They dodge the question by trying not to think of it and do not even answer the question; then when pressed, they deny it saying no one can obey it; and then finally, they go against Jesus and say he did not mean it. - Moriah

1. He dodges the question

2. He then denies it thus actually fighting against the words of Christ

3. He does not even answer the question

4. He says that Christ did not even mean "there is none good but one"

Readers, you can clearly see that Moriah has put into practice the very things he charged Catholics when dealing with my questions.

1. He dodges the question every single time and never quotes the words of Christ but replaces his words with his own interpretation.

2. He then denies it - every single post he denies he has not addressed my question.

3. He says that Christ didn't mean what he said. Christ said there is "NONE GOOD" but Moriah says most all men are good. Moriah says he was talking about WHERE goodness is found alone but is denying WHO is good and WHO is not. He tries to make it a question of WHERE goodness is found but Jesus is talking about WHO IS and WHO IS not good.

 

[Moriah]

Cowper wrote 15 hymns that are commonly sung as well as other poetry such as:

GOD moves in a mysterious way,
His wonders to perform;
He plants his footsteps in the sea,
And rides upon the storm.

I do not think I have heard those songs.

I wasn't speaking of Jesus spiritual words.

You knew I was speaking biblically.

Eating my hamburger is considered a work. Don't take my words out of their context or you make yourself a liar. Have you read Rev.21:8 lately?

I could not care less what you think about me. When you speak to me the way you do, I have confirmation that you do not know God. How could you know God if you reject what I say?

Believing or having faith is not a work.

Jesus says the work of God is to believe. Are you going to be like the Catholics and latch onto the word hyperbole as if to save your life?

If you say it is then you deny the words of Jesus in John 6 and the words of Paul in Romans 4. Why would you do that?

Again, and again, Jesus says believing is the work God requires.
People to their destruction misunderstand Paul.

Yes he does, to the nullification of all else. That means everything else is not work, or to put it another way everything else is work and believing is not. It was a play on words.

You are the one trying to play with words.
This is why you have been told a long time ago that Biblicist’s, and your beliefs really are SBM’s.

John 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.

You just gave a perfect scripture that proves we have to work for food that endures to eternal life. That scripture shows we work to get the food, and we work all through our salvation.

27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life,which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

The Bible says to work out your salvation with trembling and fear. How many scriptures do you just want to act as if you do not see?

John 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God?

John 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.

Jesus said don't labor for that which perishes (good works).

Wow. You really are way off. Jesus said do not work for food that spoils. THAT IS ABOUT
THE REAL BREAD THAT JESUS FED THEM. They were looking for more of that food Jesus gave them. It has nothing to do about good works perishing!

27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life,

They said, What shall we DO that we might WORK the WORKS of God?
Jesus said that the only work of God is to believe on Him.

First, acknowledge that Jesus told them to believe is the work they have to do.

Next, please do not say the Jesus says it is the “only” work of God.

All other works were void and unnecessary--as filthy rags.
Why? Because in reality, faith is not a work.
This was a play on words.

It is not a filthy rag to do what Jesus says to do.
I really do not mind telling you repeatedly, for it is then a better chance for someone else to know the truth.

The scripture about filthy rags is for the Jews who believed in God, kept sinning, and then did righteous acts. Those righteous acts were as filthy rags because they would keep sinning.

Don't pervert the Scriptures!!

Matthew 11:29 Take my yoke upon you, and learn of me; for I am meek and lowly in heart: and ye shall find rest unto your souls.
30 For my yoke is easy, and my burden is light.
--Twice he says "my yoke" not your works. It has nothing to do with your works.

You should stop perverting the scriptures.

Do you know what a ‘yoke’ is?

I do not think you do. Therefore, I will tell you.

Yoke is about work, it is for works of service. Jesus’ yoke is light and easy BECAUSE THE WORK IS LIGHT AND EASY. You just do not put on a yoke if you do not plan on working.

Read 1 Kings 12:4 “Your father put a heavy yoke on us, but now lighten the harsh labor and the heavy yoke he put on us, and we will serve you.”

Jeremiah 2:20 “Long ago you broke off your yoke and tore off your bond; you said, ‘I will not serve you!’

Jeremiah 5:5 So I will go to the leaders and speak to them; surely they know the way of the LORD, the requirements of their God.” But with one accord they too had broken off the yoke and torn off the bonds.

Never does the Bible say that, but it does say:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
The only requirement is to "believe."
Why do you add to the word of God? Have you read Rev.21:8 lately?

Stop trying to use God’s Word to attack me.

The Bible does say we have to continue to obey Jesus to be saved.

The Bible says if you do not do what he says God does not know you.

The Bible also says if you say you know God, but do not do what He commands, you are a liar.

Are you trying to get people to be liars?

Where does it say that? That again is a perversion of God's Word.
Peter says about Paul's writings that some were hard sayings, difficult to understand. That is the opposite of what you just said.

You really are way out there. Jesus’ yoke is light because the work is light. How does what Paul says being hard to understand for some people amount to making Jesus’ yoke not easy?

The Bible says that it is hard for the righteous to be saved! Not because the work is hard, but because they will not do the easy work!

1 Peter 4:18 And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

Please read this carefully all the way through.
1 Peter 4

17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And,
“If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
19 So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.
Oh how I love the Word of God.

The law was and still is difficult to keep. We still have the Ten Commandments and you can't keep the Ten Commandments either.

You need to speak for yourself.

Believing is not a work.

Jesus says believing is a work.

Believers do works because they are saved.

Believers better do works to stay saved.

Now answer this.
Are you of the Church of Christ?

No. I am not in the Church of Christ.

 

[The Biblicist]

How could you know God if you reject what I say?No. I am not in the Church of Christ.

Here is a revelation of the complete arrogance of Moriah. The Apostle John said these words (1 Jn. 4:5-6) but he was an apostle and wrote under inspiration. Moriah places himself and his words not only on an equal level with the apostles but equal to God Himself! According to Moriah if you reject what he says, you reject what God says. Moriah does not even have the humility to admit he is only an interpreter of God's Word and MAY be wrong!

This arrogant conceited attitude is self-evident as he calls all men ignorant and liars who do not agree with his opinions.

 

[Moriah]

Here is a revelation of the complete arrogance of Moriah. The Apostle John said these words (1 Jn. 4:5-6) but he was an apostle and wrote under inspiration. Moriah places himself and his words not only on an equal level with the apostles but equal to God Himself! According to Moriah if you reject what he says, you reject what God says. Moriah does not even have the humility to admit he is only an interpreter of God's Word and MAY be wrong!

This arrogant conceited attitude is self-evident as he calls all men ignorant and liars who do not agree with his opinions.

"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." Luke 10:16

Matthew 10:40 "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me.

Mark 9:37 "Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me."

John 13:20 I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

Galatians 4:14 Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.

1 Thessalonians 4:8 Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.

I am no baby Christian, and I am sure of what I have been speaking.

 

[DHK]

I could not care less what you think about me. When you speak to me the way you do, I have confirmation that you do not know God. How could you know God if you reject what I say?

I never said what I thought about you. I told you what you did. You took my words and twisted them, thereby lying and being dishonest. Facts are facts. And dishonesty needs to be confronted in spite of one's feelings. Now you say that you have confirmation that I do not know God, because I told you that you were doing wrong. Your feelings were hurt.
You think I am rejecting the Word because I reject what you say.
You have been rejecting the Word of God for a long time now. Of course I reject what you say. It is not Biblical. I don't reject the Word; just your interpretation of it. What you have said in this post is inexcusable.

Jesus says the work of God is to believe. Are you going to be like the Catholics and latch onto the word hyperbole as if to save your life?

The work of God is to believe. That is the only "work" that saves.
Salvation cannot be merited.
If salvation could be merited then the death of Christ would be in vain.

Again, and again, Jesus says believing is the work God requires.

Again and again? Give me the references for "again and again" (meaning many references where Jesus says we must work for our salvation.

People to their destruction misunderstand Paul.

It was Paul who said:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
What is so hard to understand about that.

You are the one trying to play with words.
This is why you have been told a long time ago that Biblicist’s, and your beliefs really are SBM’s.

Both you and SBM believe that "faith" is a work. Isn't it ironic that the hyper-calvinist and the Arminian have this in common?
Basically, I have expounded to you Scripture and you have refused the Word.

You just gave a perfect scripture that proves we have to work for food that endures to eternal life. That scripture shows we work to get the food, and we work all through our salvation.

That is not what it says.

27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life,which the Son of Man will give you. On him God the Father has placed his seal of approval.”

You didn't quote the entire text. Don't work...you can't work your way to heaven...but rather believe. The only thing you can do is to believe. That is what Christ requires of you in order to get to heaven. Faith and faith alone.

The Bible says to work out your salvation with trembling and fear. How many scriptures do you just want to act as if you do not see?

That verse is directed toward Christians and speaks of sanctification.

Wow. You really are way off. Jesus said do not work for food that spoils. THAT IS ABOUT
THE REAL BREAD THAT JESUS FED THEM. They were looking for more of that food Jesus gave them. It has nothing to do about good works perishing!

27 Do not work for food that spoils, but for food that endures to eternal life,

No problem. Don't work for the real bread. That is right. Good works, like working for real bread will not get you to heaven. That was the teaching of Jesus. Good works don't get you to heaven. Simply believing in Christ will get you eternal not good works.

First, acknowledge that Jesus told them to believe is the work they have to do.
Next, please do not say the Jesus says it is the “only” work of God.

This is THE work of God. That is, it is the only work of God.
Faith is not a work. Get the meaning of the passage.

It is not a filthy rag to do what Jesus says to do.
I really do not mind telling you repeatedly, for it is then a better chance for someone else to know the truth.

Unsaved people's works are filthy rags. That is what is true. Unsaved people cannot do good. They will not do good in the sight of God until they first believe in Jesus.

The scripture about filthy rags is for the Jews who believed in God, kept sinning, and then did righteous acts. Those righteous acts were as filthy rags because they would keep sinning.

That is not true. "righteous" acts which are filthy rags are those acts which are not declared righteous by God, and therefore done by the unsaved.

Do you know what a ‘yoke’ is?

I do not think you do. Therefore, I will tell you.

Yoke is about work, it is for works of service. Jesus’ yoke is light and easy BECAUSE THE WORK IS LIGHT AND EASY. You just do not put on a yoke if you do not plan on working.

Jesus said he would take it. He called it "My yoke." You don't understand the passage.

Stop trying to use God’s Word to attack me.

The Bible does say we have to continue to obey Jesus to be saved.

The Bible says if you do not do what he says God does not know you.

The Bible also says if you say you know God, but do not do what He commands, you are a liar.

Are you trying to get people to be liars?

You add to the Word of God. I quote the Word of God and then you add to it. That is dishonest and Rev.22:18 gives a serious warning about it.

Romans 5:1 "justified by faith"
Acts 16:31 "Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ."

But you don't believe the Scriptures. You add to them "and obey" when the words "obey" aren't there.

How does what Paul says being hard to understand for some people amount to making Jesus’ yoke not easy?

The Bible says that it is hard for the righteous to be saved! Not because the work is hard, but because they will not do the easy work!

That is heresy. It is not hard for anyone to be saved. The gospel is a simple message of believing in Christ. It is not difficult at all. Salvation is by faith and not of works. What is hard about that.

1 Peter 4:18 And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

Please read this carefully all the way through.
1 Peter 4

17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And,
“If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”
19 So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.
Oh how I love the Word of God.

You don't love the word of God when you continue to take it out of context and make it mean something that it doesn't mean. [/quote]
The first epistle of Peter was written to suffering Christians. Read the chapter carefully. Most believe that the "save" referred to in verse 18 refers to a physical salvation, the torment of the Roman government. Only the Christians had the grace to withstand the great persecution going on at that time. These were words of encouragement to the believers in Christ. Read the chapter carefully.

1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

You need to speak for yourself.

I do speak for myself. I speak for myself, for you, and for all, that on the basis of the word of God, no man can keep the law. And you are so arrogant that you say you can keep the law when the word of God says you cannot.

Jesus says believing is a work.

No, you don't understand the works of Jesus.

Believers better do works to stay saved.

That is a heresy. Once born into God's family, we are always a child of God, and don't need to do work to remain a child of God.

 

[The Biblicist]

"He who listens to you listens to me; he who rejects you rejects me; but he who rejects me rejects him who sent me." Luke 10:16

Matthew 10:40 "He who receives you receives me, and he who receives me receives the one who sent me.

Mark 9:37 "Whoever welcomes one of these little children in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me does not welcome me but the one who sent me."

John 13:20 I tell you the truth, whoever accepts anyone I send accepts me; and whoever accepts me accepts the one who sent me."

Galatians 4:14 Even though my illness was a trial to you, you did not treat me with contempt or scorn. Instead, you welcomed me as if I were an angel of God, as if I were Christ Jesus himself.

1 Thessalonians 4:8 Therefore, he who rejects this instruction does not reject man but God, who gives you his Holy Spirit.

I am no baby Christian, and I am sure of what I have been speaking.

Most of these texts have direct reference to apostles (Gal. 4:14; 1 Thes. 4:8; Jn. 13:20; Mt. 10:40) as chosen and authorized "sent" representatives of Christ - apostles. Are you claiming equality with the Apostles? They claimed what they spoke was God's Word and what they wrote was God's Word. Is that your claim? That is precisely how you act toward us! You act as if you speak by inspiration even when you are not quoting scripture but giving your own interpretations of scripture or simply your own opinions.

No one sent from God would pervert, distort, ignore the Word of God but that is exactly what you do consistently!

By the way, when Jesus said "This is the work of God that ye believe" he was claiming that saving faith is a work PERFORMED BY GOD within man and the following context proves that is what he meant (Jn. 6:36-39; 44-45; 64-65).

God must first GIVE a peson to Christ before they can come (believe) and EVERY SINGLE ONE God does give does come (believe) - Jn. 6:37,39

God must first DRAW a person to Christ before they can come (believe) and EVERY SINGLE ONE God draws does come - Jn. 6:44

God must first GIVE a person faith or they cannot believe - Jn. 6:64-65 and ever single person God gives faith to does believe - Jn. 6:65.

You are a perfect example of total inability to hear, see or perceive the Word of God (Deut. 29:4; Rom. 8:7; 1 Cor. 2:14). It does not matter how much Biblical evidence is placed before you, you have absolutely no ability to discern, see, perceive spiritual things but are complete dead to spiritual things.

 

[Moriah]

I never said what I thought about you. I told you what you did.

This IS twisting, to tell someone I never said what I thought about you, I told you what you did.
You are a false judger, an accuser, and a name caller. When you come on to debate doctrine, but you tell me I am a liar, just because you do not understand something, or agree, then you are a man who is full of discord bent on trying to attack.

When you come on to debate doctrine, but you put your nasty little comments in the form of a question, and pretend that makes it okay, it makes you deceitful and a liar.

When you tell people that their beliefs are accursed and worthy of condemnation, expect for someone to think you do not have any light in you, and you must be the one with the accursed and condemned beliefs.

It does not matter to me personally if you think I am accursed or not, but what matters is that if you do not want someone to say it to you, then do not say it to others.

Now you say that you have confirmation that I do not know God, because I told you that you were doing wrong. Your feelings were hurt.
You think I am rejecting the Word because I reject what you say.
You have been rejecting the Word of God for a long time now.

You see, you get to say to me that I reject God, but when I tell you this in return, then it is not allowed. You show you are a dishonest man. You show you are a hypocrite. This site is for debate, there are rules for everyone, yet you break them and call it okay. That is abuse.

Of course I reject what you say. It is not Biblical. I don't reject the Word; just your interpretation of it. What you have said in this post is inexcusable.

I only speak what the Word says.

The work of God is to believe. That is the only "work" that saves.
Salvation cannot be merited.
If salvation could be merited then the death of Christ would be in vain.

Is anyone telling you to be circumcised? NO. Is anyone telling you to observe special days? NO. If you did those things, then Christ died for nothing. It is evil to say if you obey Jesus then Christ died for nothing. The Old Testament is no longer the Covenant we are to obey. We are to obey the New Covenant! The New Covenant has almost the same as the Old Covenant, without the external ceremonial washings just to worship God, without circumcision of the flesh, without the observance of special days. The Jews were commanded to celebrate the Passover, are you commanded to observe special days in the New Testament? No. However, if a person still observed the rules and regulations of the Old Testament, then Christ died for nothing. We are to obey the New Testament, all of it, and that means even the do not do this commands and the commands saying what to do.

Again and again? Give me the references for "again and again" (meaning many references where Jesus says we must work for our salvation.

I have been giving you the scriptures, but you will not accept them.

Philippians 2:12 Therefore, my dear friends, as you have always obeyed--not only in my presence, but now much more in my absence--continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

1 John 2:4 The man who says, "I know him," but does not do what he commands is a liar, and the truth is not in him.

1 John 1:6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

1 John 3:6 No one who lives in him keeps on sinning. No one who continues to sin has either seen him or known him.

1 John 4:20 If anyone says, "I love God," yet hates his brother, he is a liar. For anyone who does not love his brother, whom he has seen, cannot love God, whom he has not seen.

Matthew 23:3 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach.

Matthew 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Luke 11:28 He replied, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and obey it.”

John 14:15 “If you love me, you will obey what I command.

John 14:21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him.”

John 14:23 Jesus replied, “If anyone loves me, he will obey my teaching. My Father will love him, and we will come to him and make our home with him.

John 14:24 He who does not love me will not obey my teaching. These words you hear are not my own; they belong to the Father who sent me.

John 15:10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father’s commands and remain in his love.

John 15:20 Remember the words I spoke to you: ‘No servant is greater than his master.’ If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also.

Acts 5:32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him.”

Acts 16:4 As they traveled from town to town, they delivered the decisions reached by the apostles and elders in Jerusalem for the people to obey.

Romans 2:13 For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God’s sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous.

Romans 6:16 Don’t you know that when you offer yourselves to someone to obey him as slaves, you are slaves to the one whom you obey—whether you are slaves to sin, which leads to death, or to obedience, which leads to righteousness?

Romans 15:18 I will not venture to speak of anything except what Christ has accomplished through me in leading the Gentiles to obey God by what I have said and done—

Romans 16:26 but now revealed and made known through the prophetic writings by the command of the eternal God, so that all nations might believe and obey him—

2 Thessalonians 1:8 He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus.

2 Thessalonians 3:14 If anyone does not obey our instruction in this letter, take special note of him. Do not associate with him, in order that he may feel ashamed.

Hebrews 5:9 and, once made perfect, he became the source of eternal salvation for all who obey him

Hebrews 13:17 Obey your leaders and submit to their authority. They keep watch over you as men who must give an account. Obey them so that their work will be a joy, not a burden, for that would be of no advantage to you.

1 Peter 1:22 Now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.

1 Peter 3:6 like Sarah, who obeyed Abraham and called him her master. You are her daughters if you do what is right and do not give way to fear.

1 Peter 4:17 For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

1 John 2:3 We know that we have come to know him if we obey his commands.

1 John 2:5 But if anyone obeys his word, God’s love is truly made complete in him. This is how we know we are in him:

1 John 3:22 and receive from him anything we ask, because we obey his commands and do what pleases him.

1 John 3:24 Those who obey his commands live in him, and he in them. And this is how we know that he lives in us: We know it by the Spirit he gave us.

1 John 5:3 This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome,

Revelation 3:3 Remember, therefore, what you have received and heard; obey it, and repent. But if you do not wake up, I will come like a thief, and you will not know at what time I will come to you.

Revelation 12:17 Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to make war against the rest of her offspring—those who obey God’s commandments and hold to the testimony of Jesus.

Revelation 14:12 This calls for patient endurance on the part of the saints who obey God’s commandments and remain faithful to Jesus.

 

[The Biblicist]

When you come on to debate doctrine, but you tell me I am a liar, just because you do not understand something, or agree,

You whitewashed hypocrit you can hardly write a post without calling others liars! You are charging him with what you are guilty of and here are your own words directed at DHK to prove it:

it makes you deceitful and a liar. - Moriah (post #152)

You are in a false belief system just like SBM. - Moriah (post #123)

You are ridiculous -Moriah (post #123)

You teach lies. - Morah (post #128)

 

[Moriah]

You whitewashed hypocrit you can hardly write a post without calling others liars! You are charging him with what you are guilty of and here are your own words directed at DHK to prove it:

it makes you deceitful and a liar. - Moriah (post #152)

You are in a false belief system just like SBM. - Moriah (post #123)

You are ridiculous -Moriah (post #123)

You teach lies. - Morah (post #128)

You quote where I defend myself. If you had understanding, you would see that, and you would see you are a hypocrite, just look at what you say to me here, accuse me of things you do.

 

[Moriah]

It was Paul who said:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
What is so hard to understand about that.

People misunderstand Paul to their destruction, that is WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. I speak the Word of God, and you go against it. Here is proof right there.

Both you and SBM believe that "faith" is a work. Isn't it ironic that the hyper-calvinist and the Arminian have this in common?

I am not Arminian. You have the same beliefs as SBM…you both teach no one can do anything.

That is not true. "righteous" acts which are filthy rags are those acts which are not declared righteous by God, and therefore done by the unsaved.

That is falseness you speak, for the scripture is in the Old Testament and it is to the Jews.

Jesus said he would take it. He called it "My yoke." You don't understand the passage.

Yoke is about work, it is for works of service. Jesus’ yoke is light and easy BECAUSE THE WORK IS LIGHT AND EASY. You just do not put on a yoke if you do not plan on working.

But you don't believe the Scriptures. You add to them "and obey" when the words "obey" aren't there.

I do not add to the scriptures. There are enough scriptures to tell us to obey.

That is heresy. It is not hard for anyone to be saved. The gospel is a simple message of believing in Christ. It is not difficult at all. Salvation is by faith and not of works. What is hard about that.

That is what you say about the scripture I quoted, so you are not going against me, but the Word of God.

1 Peter 4:18 And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

It is only hard it you do not obey.

You don't love the word of God when you continue to take it out of context and make it mean something that it doesn't mean.
The first epistle of Peter was written to suffering Christians.

How do you ever get that that changes the scripture? It is not okay for even suffering Christians to not obey.

Read the chapter carefully. Most believe that the "save" referred to in verse 18 refers to a physical salvation, the torment of the Roman government. Only the Christians had the grace to withstand the great persecution going on at that time. These were words of encouragement to the believers in Christ. Read the chapter carefully.

1 Peter 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

You do not want to see the Truth. You try to nullify 1 Peter 4:18 because it does not fit into your leaders teaching.

17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

19 So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

We are told to continue to do good.

I do speak for myself. I speak for myself, for you, and for all, that on the basis of the word of God, no man can keep the law. And you are so arrogant that you say you can keep the law when the word of God says you cannot.

You are arrogant not taking correction. You are arrogant when you accuse everyone of breaking the law all the time. You do not know and understand God, and you cannot speak for everyone saying you know when and what sins they commit.

That is a heresy. Once born into God's family, we are always a child of God, and don't need to do work to remain a child of God.

Luke 12:46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

 

[The Biblicist]

You quote where I defend myself. If you had understanding, you would see that, and you would see you are a hypocrite, just look at what you say to me here, accuse me of things you do.

Rom. 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Lu 6:27 ¶ But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

Lu 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

1Pe 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

You were the one making the charge against DHK! Did you follow these scriptures? No! You violated every one of them and they are all talking about responding to YOUR ENEMIES.

So, two wrongs make a right? Is that your Biblical philosophy?

So, did you sin? Did you violate these scriptures? Did you obey them? Are you a spiritually mature enough Christian to admit you are wrong when you are obviously wrong??? I doubt it!

You are a hypocrit because what you charge DHK with you are guilty of!

 

[Moriah]

I get it Biblicist, you do not understand, and you want to keep attacking me verbally here, but stop it now!
Stop turning my posts into a crazy rant of yours.

 

[DHK]

People misunderstand Paul to their destruction, that is WHAT THE BIBLE SAYS. I speak the Word of God, and you go against it. Here is proof right there.

What proof? I said:

It was Paul who said:
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
What is so hard to understand about that.

I stand by what I say. There is nothing difficult about Acts 16:31:
"Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."
--What is there about that verse that you don't understand?
What instruction did Paul give the Philippian jailor that will send him to his won destruction, and others too? I have spoken the Word of God, apparently you have not.

I am not Arminian. You have the same beliefs as SBM…you both teach no one can do anything.

Then I don't know what you are. Let's put it this way.
Suppose we draw a spectrum, a line with SBM, a hyper-Calvinist as far to the right as possible. Then you, with whatever position you have, are as far as to the left as possible. Yet, you both believe that "faith" is a work.

That is falseness you speak, for the scripture is in the Old Testament and it is to the Jews.

Isaiah 64:6 But we are all as an unclean thing, and all our righteousnesses are as filthy rags; and we all do fade as a leaf; and our iniquities, like the wind, have taken us away.
--We use Scripture from the OT all the time, or did you throw your OT away? Is it no more relevant to you?

This verse was written to Israel as well, also found in the book of Isaiah:
Isaiah 1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD: though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
--I use it often. I has some wonderful truths in it.

Isaiah 64:6 says "Our righteousness are as filthy rags." That means the righteousnesses that we do. It is the righteousnesses that any person does that is not right with God whether saved or not. An unsaved person's good works will never be acceptable to God, and your good works will not be acceptable to God if done in the wrong spirit.

Yoke is about work, it is for works of service. Jesus’ yoke is light and easy BECAUSE THE WORK IS LIGHT AND EASY. You just do not put on a yoke if you do not plan on working.

First you ignore context.
Matthew 11:28 Come unto me, all ye that labour and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest.
You must first accept the invitation and come to Jesus.
When you come to him, then you receive him and obtain salvation.
The rest of the passage, therefore is applicable only to believers. It is not talking of salvation. So your argument is moot.

I do not add to the scriptures. There are enough scriptures to tell us to obey.

There are no Scriptures that tell an unsaved person he has to obey to be saved. Salvation is by faith and faith alone. You keep adding "obey" to the Word, just as you do in Acts 16:31 and in Romans 5:1. It is not there.

That is what you say about the scripture I quoted, so you are not going against me, but the Word of God.

1 Peter 4:18 And, "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"

It is only hard it you do not obey.

And I will say it again. The gospel is a simple message. It is the death, burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ (1Cor.15:1-4). Look it up. It is by faith alone. Now to defend your position you must take Scripture written to Christians that have nothing to do with salvation out of its context. Shameful!

How do you ever get that that changes the scripture? It is not okay for even suffering Christians to not obey.

Because if you studied 1Peter you would understand that it is written to suffering Christians. Christians don't need to be saved. Salvation is not for Christians. Keep focused here. The topic is salvation. Salvation is by faith and faith alone, not by obedience.

You do not want to see the Truth. You try to nullify 1 Peter 4:18 because it does not fit into your leaders teaching.

17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God’s household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God?

19 So then, those who suffer according to God’s will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good.

We are told to continue to do good.

I never deny that Christians are to continue to do good.
The topic is salvation. Keep focused. Never is an unsaved person told to do good in order to be saved. That is heresy. Salvation is by faith alone. Why are you taking Scripture from 1Peter 4 and trying to use it to prove that the unsaved must do good in order to be saved?

You are arrogant not taking correction. You are arrogant when you accuse everyone of breaking the law all the time. You do not know and understand God, and you cannot speak for everyone saying you know when and what sins they commit.

I stand on the Word of God which you deny. No man can keep the law. No man. You deny this. James 2:10; Gal.3:10. You deny these verses. And in so doing you bring the judgement of 1John 1:8,10 upon yourself. I don't know when you sin, but you do, and you do it every day. Every day I see you sin, by the way you post. Yesterday some of your posts were very ungodly. You claimed that you had knowledge that I was unsaved. That is a very ungodly statement to say that you need to repent of. It is sin.

Luke 12:46The master of that servant will come on a day when he does not expect him and at an hour he is not aware of. He will cut him to pieces and assign him a place with the unbelievers.

A parable. It does not teach works.

James 1:22 Do not merely listen to the word, and so deceive yourselves. Do what it says.

Written to Christians it has nothing to do with salvation by works.

 

[The Biblicist]

Rom. 12:19 Dearly beloved, avenge not yourselves, but rather give place unto wrath: for it is written, Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord.
20 Therefore if thine enemy hunger, feed him; if he thirst, give him drink: for in so doing thou shalt heap coals of fire on his head.
21 Be not overcome of evil, but overcome evil with good.

Lu 6:27 ¶ But I say unto you which hear, Love your enemies, do good to them which hate you,

Lu 6:28 Bless them that curse you, and pray for them which despitefully use you.

1Pe 3:9 Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing.

You were the one making the charge against DHK! Did you follow these scriptures? No! You violated every one of them and they are all talking about responding to YOUR ENEMIES.

So, two wrongs make a right? Is that your Biblical philosophy?

So, did you sin? Did you violate these scriptures? Did you obey them? Are you a spiritually mature enough Christian to admit you are wrong when you are obviously wrong??? I doubt it!

You are a hypocrit because what you charge DHK with you are guilty of!

Are you saying you responded to DHK as instructed above by Jesus and Paul???

Are you saying you never said those things taken from you posts directed explicitly at DHK?

Are you saying that you never called DHK a liar? Is that what you are saying?

 

[Yeshua1]

I get it Biblicist, you do not understand, and you want to keep attacking me verbally here, but stop it now!
Stop turning my posts into a crazy rant of yours.

if one has placed faith in jesus to be his saviour, are you saying must also obey God 'enough" to stay saved, if he does not walk in obedience enough, can be lost again?