• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

DEAD MEANS DEAD!

B

Brother Bob

New Member
Claudia;
In the first place I am not among those that believe the souls are walking around Heaven. I think they are asleep in Jesus Christ but for sure in Heaven but at rest. I don't think the souls have no knowledge of what is taking place on earth for they would see some of their lost children and others in trouble and it would not be a "rest". Now, concerning the body being dead. It was once appointed unto man to die and from the day we are born in this life on earth we began to die (perish) and to that there is no excape. The only way the body will ever be raised from a dead state of sin is in the resurrection but there is a part of man that is "made alive in Christ and therefore it has to be the soul". There are Scripture telling us of souls in Heaven and God is no respect of person and if one Christian's soul goes to Heaven so do the rest. The answers you have from others such as DHK, Jfox1 and others have told you close to my beliefs. I do not believe the souls are going to be a part of the Godhead or do anything but rest until the redemption of the body and then both soul and body will take a Heavenly flight and meet the Lord in the Cloud and He will take them to Heaven for ever. I don't have time right now to get all the Scripture together but I have already posted them in the past. What you say about the body being dead and the Spirit alive is exactly what I have been saying. The body is dead because of sin and cannot be redeemed without death. "Thou fool, how can that be quickened except it first die". Well the same thing was true with the soul "the soul that sinneth shall die" and therefore is why Jesus told His deciple to let the "dead bury the dead". So, the soul was dead in sin and had to be made alive in Christ Jesus (born again) in this life for there is not repentance after death. Then the inward man (soul) is already put on Christ and when the death comes to the body it will leave the body for a rest in Heaven until "them that are asleep in Jesus will God bring with Him". He is bringing them to be reunited with a body as DHK said that had been resurrected a Spiritual body. It will be the same person but made over new, the same clay but the potter will make it over new, for "ever bone shall come to its bone". After the church has been reunited with their souls and both soul and body go to Heaven then God will pass judgement on the Devil, his angels, those that work abomination and those that make a lie. The unbelievers and death and Hell. Sorry I didn't go and get the Scripture but you know I can and where they are. I know before you even read this that we disagree for I have read your post, but my life is based on when I die that God will send angels and take my soul to Heaven where I will rest until the redemption of my body from a corruptle to an incorruptile body, from a natural to a Spiritual, from weakness unto Glory and as we have in this life had a Glory about us when we die that Glory is gone but it is not to be compared with the Glory that shall be reveiled in us. As Paul said, I have a crown laid up for me but not me only but all them that love and serve the Lord. Blessings,

BBob
 
M

Mary Diana Lynn Harper

New Member
Claudia,
First of all I believe that Christ rose from the dead. Christ is the first of Gods children to arise from the dead, in the physical body. Christ was alive in the spirit. You have a problem, Christ is alive and well living in each life that He is allowed to live in. He does not force himself on you. His spirit lives on in the children of God. I never said that the dead were in Heaven. You have taken my message out of context to provide yourself a way out. If you do believe in Christ as you say you will believe that He is alive in your life. He is in my life. Weather in Spirit or In the flesh as our hearts He is alive. Nothing that you say or do will change that in anyones life. Read before you preach the Word, if you read the Word, Read the whole Word, not just the parts you want to hear or read. the Whole Word is the Word of God. Including that Christ was resurrected into eternal life with God. As a meadeator for His Children. He is the new Covenant. Our Covenant. AMEN
 
C

Claudia_T

New Member
Mary

Huh? To provide myself a way out of what? Mary, you lost me, I dont know what you are talking about.. in light of what I said to you

OF COURSE I believe Jesus is alive in my life. Like I said, I havent a clue what you are talking about... and what it has to do with what I said to you.
 
J

JFox1

New Member
In Heaven we will serve God day and night in His temple (Rev. 7:15). We are not to be just a bunch of trophies sitting on a mantle. You cannot serve God if you are asleep in Heaven. Rest means that the activity we will do in Heaven will not be tiresome or burdensome like it is here. We also won't have sin to slow us down.

This work will have lasting accomplishment, unhindered by decay and fatigue, and enhanced by unlimited resources. Heaven's labor will be refreshing, productive and unthwarted, without futility and frustration. Our work will be purposeful in light of Christ's redemptive work and the glory it will have brought.

Read the Book of Revelation. There is worship in Heaven. Singing and praising God. We will reign with Christ in Heaven (Rev. 3:21). We will each receive hidden manna and a white stone with a special name that only the person who receives it will know (Rev. 2:17). Your Mom won't know that this name is nor your friends. Not me. Only you will know it. We will receive the crown of life and will not taste the second death (Rev. 2:10-11). We will eat the tree of life in the Paradise of God (Rev. 2:7). We will receive the morning star (Rev. 2:20). We will be a pillar in God's temple (Rev. 2:12). God will write His name on us (Rev. 2:12).

And wildest of all, Jesus promised that we will sit down with Him on His throne! (Rev. 3:21). That is absolutely mind-blowing!!!!!!!!

No, Heaven is NOT a place of inactivity before the resurrection! PRAISE GOD!!!!!!!!!! \O/

When the resurrection does take place, with our resurrected bodies we will be able to live forever in the new heaven and the new earth!
 
B

Brother Bob

New Member
If you born again you already have the white stone and the name if probably Christian! You already a pillar in the City if you born again. He that overcometh will I write upon him the name of the city of my God, the name of that Holy City, New Jerusalem. "you are a city set on a hill that cannot be hid."

We will do all those things when both soul and body reach Heaven but until then we be as Apostle Paul, therefore there is a rest that remaineth for me but not me only but all them that love and serve the Lord. When Jesus arose from the dead many of the bodies of the saints arose with him but we were not part of them and they are the ones raising their hands and giving God the praise, saying thou art worthy Oh Lord for thou hath redeemed us with thy blood.

When we go through the resurrection is when we too will receive all those things but just the soul when death come before the resurrection. It will be at rest as Paul said.

Blessings,

BBob
 
J

JFox1

New Member
You and Claudia can rest until resurrection day if you want to, but as for me, I will go straight to Heaven and serve the Lord unhindered by sin. I don't want to be just a trophy sitting on a mantle until Judgment Day and I won't have to be!
 
B

Brother Bob

New Member
Well, we will surely find out JFox1 if we are born again. The beggar was at rest in Abraham's bossom wasn't he? (which is a type and figure of God) and I don't think some will be here and some there and some there. But it will be as it will be.
 
J

JFox1

New Member
Yes, the beggar was at rest in Abraham's bosom but he was also awake. The rich man in hell was also aware of his surroundings and had a conversation with Abraham, who was also awake and aware. You have your faculties in the afterlife. Uh oh! I better get offline. There's a Severe Thunderstorm Warning for my area and if I don't get off the computer, I will find out about the afterlife the HARD WAY! :eek:
 
C

Claudia_T

New Member
Well JFox we will all find out about the afterlife TOGETHER on Resurrection Day!


1Thes:4:15: For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.


and do you know what we shall all say on that day?


Isa:25:
8: He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces ; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9: And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him , and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

THEN Im gonna look at Brother Bob and JFox and say "See? I told you so!
:D

Ya know, there wouldnt be any reason to say "This is the Lord; we have waited for Him and He will save us" if we had already been in heaven all that time before then! Unless yer Scitzophrenic or something and have two separate personalities, of course!

[ May 24, 2006, 11:35 PM: Message edited by: Claudia_T ]
 
B

Brother Bob

New Member
Claudia;
Isa:25:
8: He will swallow up death in victory; and the Lord GOD will wipe away tears from off all faces ; and the rebuke of his people shall he take away from off all the earth: for the LORD hath spoken it.
9: And it shall be said in that day, Lo, this is our God; we have waited for him , and he will save us: this is the LORD; we have waited for him, we will be glad and rejoice in his salvation.

I could take any of the Scriptures and make them a symbolism and say about anything I want. The rich man in hell is not symbolism.

THEN Im gonna look at Brother Bob and JFox and say "See? I told you so!

Ya know, there wouldnt be any reason to say "This is the Lord; we have waited for Him and He will save us" if we had already been in heaven all that time before then! Unless yer Scitzophrenic or something and have two separate personalities, of course!
Click to expand...
(Swallow up death in victory. The body is what is dead!!!)

Claudia; When you are "born again" is your soul made alive in Christ Jesus? Also where is the soul when you die? You don't believe the soul is in the grave do you? If so, why would some be in Heaven Now???

I could take any Scripture and make it a symbolism and make about anything I wanted out of it. The rich man in hell is not a symbolism.
 
B

Brother Bob

New Member
Well Claudia;
I didn't read it all for it even starts off terrible. It says Christians can see in Hell and the torment when the Scripture only speaks of Father Abraham seeing the rich man (who is a type and figure of God) so his first statements are wrong. He also assumes the rich man had not sinned and lazarus was not righteous. Now how could he know that? The rich man had "no compassion" is that enough sin, I don't know. Lazarus was begging and so was I when lost. Was that enough to be saved, I don't know and neither does the writer. I can see where he is going and it is the opposite the way I see the Scripture so no need to go further.

The writer is Biblical Universalism who does not believe in punishment in Hell for a beginning.

BBob
 
J

JFox1

New Member
Originally posted by Brother Bob:
JFox1; I was wondering how you knew the beggar was awake?
Click to expand...
Abraham was awake and talked with the rich man. The rich man asked that Lazarus come and give him water. He later asked that Lazarus to be sent to his brothers, who were still alive, and warn them. He never once said, "Hey, Abraham. Please wake up Lazarus and send him over here." I believe in a conscious afterlife for both the saved and the unsaved. Only certain groups teach otherwise, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses, followers of Herbert or Garner Ted Armstrong, and Seventh-Day Adventists.
 
H

Heavenly Pilgrim

New Member
Claudia: It DOES matter what you believe about this subject because if you believe that the dead are in heaven and aware of what is going on around them then you are putting yourself into the position where you can be deceived by demonic spirits posing as dead relatives, giving counsel and advice.

HP: Please Claudia. Your logical deduction escapes the confines of good sense. When you over state your case by extrapolating the connection that exists in your imagination between a truth clearly exemplified clearly in Scripture and patent demonic activity, you have left the confines of reason and have entered into the realm of meaningless rhetoric.

Rest assured, those men with Jesus on the Mount of transfiguration were not mirages, nor were they sleep walkers. They were alive, conversing cognizant individuals living and reigning with Christ. To join the ranks of the living departed at rest but alive in Christ should be the real hope of every believer.
 
J

JFox1

New Member
Originally posted by Heavenly Pilgrim:
Claudia: It DOES matter what you believe about this subject because if you believe that the dead are in heaven and aware of what is going on around them then you are putting yourself into the position where you can be deceived by demonic spirits posing as dead relatives, giving counsel and advice.

HP: Please Claudia. Your logical deduction escapes the confines of good sense. When you over state your case by extrapolating the connection that exists in your imagination between a truth clearly exemplified clearly in Scripture and patent demonic activity, you have left the confines of reason and have entered into the realm of meaningless rhetoric.

Rest assured, those men with Jesus on the Mount of transfiguration were not mirages, nor were they sleep walkers. They were alive, conversing cognizant individuals living and reigning with Christ. To join the ranks of the living departed at rest but alive in Christ should be the real hope of every believer.
Click to expand...
AMEN!!!!! That is my hope!
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top