Dead to the Ten Commandments

[The Biblicist]

Romans 7:1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God..........7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Take note that "the law" Paul has in view includes the ten commandments as verse 7 quotes the tenth commandment. Both the ceremonial and civil law are based upon the ten commandments as is all law including the law written upon the conscience of Gentiles (Rom. 2:14-15). If we are not justified or sanctified by the ten commandments we are not justified or sanctified by any law of commandments.

That is precisely Paul's point in Romans 7:6-25. While he was unregenerated (Rom. 7:6-13) the law could not justify him, give him life or save him but only expose and condemn all his efforts to conform to it.

When he became saved (Rom. 7:14-25) the law could not sanctify him or produce through him a godly life.

Why? Because the Law has no life or power to do anything but reveal sin and righteousness. Because the law cannot regenerate or sanctify anyone.

We are sanctified the very same way we are justified - "As you received the Lord Jesus Christ SO WALK ye in him" - Col. 2:6

"If we LIVE in the Spirit then let us WALK in the Spirit" - Gal. 5:25

If we are justified by faith in the Person and provision of Jesus Christ WITHOUT OUR WORKS then we are sanctified by faith by the Person and power of the indwelling Spirit of God WITHOUT OUR WORKS. If we received Christ by faith then we are to walk by faith in the power of the Holy Spirit as well.

This is the ONLY way to obtain justification and sanctification as there is NTHER WAY!

1 Cor. 1:30 But OF HIM are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

The provision of Christ must justify us and the power of the Holy Spirit must sanctify us.

The Law serves only one purpose - to define sin and expose all men as sinners so as to lead them away from their own obedience and power to be justified and sanctified but lead them to faith in Christ for justification and faith in the Holy Spirit's power for sanctification.

All those who live by faith and walk by faith are those whose lives manifest obedience to the commandments of God.

All those who are justified by works and are sanctified by works are self-righteous hypocrits (Mt. 7:21-23) who are more ungodly than the harlots and publicans.

"the works of the law" EQUAL commandment keeping by your own person in your own power whereas justification by faith and sanctification by faith EQUAL justification by Christ's commandment keeping imputed to us and santification by the power of the Spirit working through us by faith.

 

[savedbymercy]

When are those Christ died for dead to the Law, the Ten Commandments ? What constitutes them so ?

 

[The Biblicist]

When are those Christ died for dead to the Law, the Ten Commandments ? What constitutes them so ?

Look, I am not going to allow you to derail this thread with your extreme irrational and unbiblical views.

Rom. 7:5 For when we WERE in the flesh, the motions of sins, which WERE by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. 6 But NOW we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we WERE held;

Hence, there was no freedom from the law "WHEN" we were in the flesh but contextually this FREEDOM occurred only "NOW" after having been "delivered from the law" are we "BEING DEAD"! Before justification by faith we had no freedom from the law. Only NOW after being delivered from the law by justification through faith are we "being dead."

However, your conscience is so seared by false doctrine you have no trouble calling black white and white black and thus twist the scriptures to fit your theology.

 

[JonC]

Of course, if we are in Christ we will also be living by the Ten Commandments. We would love God with all of our being and our neighbor as ourselves. But then, we would be justified in Him.

 

[The Biblicist]

Of course, if we are in Christ we will also be living by the Ten Commandments. We would love God with all of our being and our neighbor as ourselves. But then, we would be justified in Him.

One must first be CREATED "in Christ" by God's WORKmanship (Eph. 2:10a) BEFORE the law is progressively being fulfilled through our lives by the indwelling Holy Spirit (Eph. 2:10b).

When the Spirit progressively fulfills the law through our life it is called "love" as love is the fulfilling of the law (Rom. 13:8-10)

The Ten commandments were given in the negative "Thou shalt NOT" in order to excite and thus reveal the sinful nature in man proving he is lost and cannot keep the law. However, the regenerated man has been created in "true holiness and righteousness" (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10) and thus his inward man "delights in the Law of God" (Rom. 7:22) and "his commandments are not grevious" (I Jn. 5:3).

However, the law is fulfilled by Christ to justify us by faith and the law is fulfilled by the Spirit's power through us by faith as well - "As ye received the Lord Jesus Christ SO WALK ye in him" (Col. 2:6) and if we "LIVE in (by) the Spirit then let us also "WALK in (by) the Spirit" - Gal. 5:25

 

[JonC]

One must first be CREATED "in Christ" by God's WORKmanship (Eph. 2:10a) BEFORE the law is progressively being fulfilled through our lives by the indwelling Holy Spirit (Eph. 2:10b).

When the Spirit progressively fulfills the law through our life it is called "love" as love is the fulfilling of the law (Rom. 13:8-10)

The Ten commandments were given in the negative "Thou shalt NOT" in order to excite and thus reveal the sinful nature in man proving he is lost and cannot keep the law. However, the regenerated man has been created in "true holiness and righteousness" (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10) and thus his inward man "delights in the Law of God" (Rom. 7:22) and "his commandments are not grevious" (I Jn. 5:3).

However, the law is fulfilled by Christ to justify us by faith and the law is fulfilled by the Spirit's power through us by faith as well - "As ye received the Lord Jesus Christ SO WALK ye in him" (Col. 2:6) and if we "LIVE in (by) the Spirit then let us also "WALK in (by) the Spirit" - Gal. 5:25

Yes - I agree 100% with this statement. (I hadn't previously considered the Commandments as given in the negative - but you point out a good contrast between the "shall nots" and the "love God and love each other" commands).

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

[DHK]

Salvation is by grace through faith. It is not of works. Salvation is all of God. We agree on that. Even in our Christian walk it is only by the grace of God that we are kept by the power of God.

However the Ten Commandments, except for one, are all repeated, as commands in the NT. They still become binding on us to obey. Our entire judicial law is based on these commandments. We have a Judeo-Christian ethic which this country was founded on. The Ten Commandments cannot be dismissed so easily.

The value of the Ten Commandments is that they point us to Christ. They are our schoolmaster. They show us our sinfulness. One cannot be saved unless they first know they are lost. That is the purpose of the Ten Commandments--they condemn us. They show us our need of a Savior. No man can keep the law (the law here simply being the Ten Commandments). We need a Savior, for we are sinners, transgressors of God's law.

 

[mandym]

Why is all the large font necessary?

 

[The Biblicist]

Salvation is by grace through faith. It is not of works. Salvation is all of God. We agree on that. Even in our Christian walk it is only by the grace of God that we are kept by the power of God.

However the Ten Commandments, except for one, are all repeated, as commands in the NT.

But as you admit they are not repeated as a means of justification. As moral law they have no different purpose after the cross than before the cross which is to reveal sin and lead sinners to Christ as that is the function of all that is considerd "law."

However, the ten commandments are also the moral base for the whole Old Covenant, as both the ceremonial law and the civil law are founded upon the ten commandments. The whole Old Covenant has been fulfilled in the life and death of Christ and thus the WHOLE Old covenant is nailed to the cross including the ten commandments.

They still become binding on us to obey.

We must be "under" a law for any law to be "binding on us." We are dead to the Law through the body of Christ (Rom. 7:5) and the law he is speaking about is the ten commandments and he gives the tenth commandment as his example (Rom. 7:7). He nailed "law" to the cross by having his body nailed to the cross because the death of His body satisfied every demand of law against his elect so that they are no longer "UNDER LAW" but UNDER GRACE" (Rom. 6:14-15). Hence, we are only bound to what we are "under" and we are no longer "under" law.

We are not under any EXTERNAL law/commandments of God but we are under the INTERNAL law "of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" (Rom. 8:2). This law is something we cannot administer as no man can adminsiter it. This law operates above our will power (Rom. 7:18) and abilties (Rom. 7:14-25) by the enlightenment and power of the indwelling Spirit of God alone in connection with the new man inside created in true holiness and righteousness or in the image of God (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10).

It works in harmony with the external laws/commandments of God (Rom. 7:22) but not "UNDER" them and therefore we are not "bound" to them.

We have something better than any EXTERNAL law and something better than being "under law." The child of God is liberated by "the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" which is the mind, attitude and actions of Jesus Christ made manifest in and through us by the power of the Holy Spirit. It is called the "royal" law and the law of "liberty" as well as the law of "love" which is in spirit/principle the fulfillment of all the laws/commandments found in scripture.

It is motivated out of love for the glory of God rather than for love of self and self glory (1 Cor. 10:30) and it is performed only by God working in us both to "will" and to "do" His good purposes (Philip. 2:13).

The moral principles and precepts in scripture define what pleases and displeases God while the law of the life of the Spirit in Christ Jesus is what enlightens, teaches and enables those precepts and principles in the life of the beleiver. The written precepts and principles of God's Word provide understanding and direction but the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus provides the ONLY proper motive and power for the right expression in the life of the believer.

"The law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus" works in perfect harmony with the written Word of God, its precepts and principles but it cannot be adminstered by us (Rom. 7:14-25) but only "by faith" in submission to the Holy Spirit (Rom. 8:1-13).

"As we received the Lord Jesus Christ SO walk ye in him" - Col. 2:6

"For if we LIVE in the Spirit, let us also WALK in the Spirit" - Gal. 5:25

My issue with your statement we are "bound" to the law means we are "under law" and thus "under" the SELF administration of the law of commandments. We are no longer "under" the law or the SELF administration of law. We are under the administration of the New Covenant wherein there are no administrators but God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:4-14). We are free from the law of commandments but not free from the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus but we are not the administrator of that law.

 

[DHK]

My issue with your statement we are "bound" to the law means we are "under law" and thus "under" the SELF administration of the law of commandments. We are no longer "under" the law or the SELF administration of law. We are under the administration of the New Covenant wherein there are no administrators but God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit (Eph. 1:4-14). We are free from the law of commandments but not free from the law of the Spirit of Life in Christ Jesus but we are not the administrator of that law.

I agree with most of which you say. But if we take your view too far we end up with antinomianism. We must have "law" so some extent. Our nation is ruled by law. If we didn't have law we would have chaos. God ordained law in Romans 13. No man can be completely free from "law." Being a Christian doesn't give one the license to break the law. We are "bound" to the law that God has set in place for us to obey.

 

[The Biblicist]

I agree with most of which you say. But if we take your view too far we end up with antinomianism. We must have "law" so some extent. Our nation is ruled by law. If we didn't have law we would have chaos. God ordained law in Romans 13. No man can be completely free from "law." Being a Christian doesn't give one the license to break the law. We are "bound" to the law that God has set in place for us to obey.

The law of the Spirit of Life in Jesus Christ "always does that which pleases" God. The law of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ is always "holy, good and righteous." The law of the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ is never anti-law but is the true fulfillment of the Law. There is no neutral position between married to the law versus married to Christ. There is no neutral position between a servant of sin and a servant of Christ. One is either a servant of sin or a servant of righteousness.

 

[DaChaser1]

One must first be CREATED "in Christ" by God's WORKmanship (Eph. 2:10a) BEFORE the law is progressively being fulfilled through our lives by the indwelling Holy Spirit (Eph. 2:10b).

When the Spirit progressively fulfills the law through our life it is called "love" as love is the fulfilling of the law (Rom. 13:8-10)

The Ten commandments were given in the negative "Thou shalt NOT" in order to excite and thus reveal the sinful nature in man proving he is lost and cannot keep the law. However, the regenerated man has been created in "true holiness and righteousness" (Eph. 4:24; Col. 3:10) and thus his inward man "delights in the Law of God" (Rom. 7:22) and "his commandments are not grevious" (I Jn. 5:3).

However, the law is fulfilled by Christ to justify us by faith and the law is fulfilled by the Spirit's power through us by faith as well - "As ye received the Lord Jesus Christ SO WALK ye in him" (Col. 2:6) and if we "LIVE in (by) the Spirit then let us also "WALK in (by) the Spirit" - Gal. 5:25

The Law served its purpose, the Messaih came, did His work, so now we live in and by the peron/power of the Holy Spirit, and he will allow us to live for Christ as keeping the law never could, as we were weak and sinful flesh before reborn into image of Christ!

 

[savedbymercy]

bib

Look, I am not going to allow you to derail this thread with your extreme irrational and unbiblical views.

Answer the question, otherwise you do not know what you are talking about. When were those Christ died for dead to the Law ? We will see who is unbiblical !

there was no freedom from the law "WHEN" we were in the flesh

Thats a Lie. The Death of Christ severed those He died for from the Law, the scripture says it Rom 7:4

Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

The Body of Christ is Christ's Death ! Now go ahead and deny that and call it unbiblical ! Paul said Ye became Dead to the Law by Christ's Death !

 

[plain_n_simple]

Romans 7:1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God..........7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Take note that "the law" Paul has in view includes the ten commandments as verse 7 quotes the tenth commandment. Both the ceremonial and civil law are based upon the ten commandments as is all law including the law written upon the conscience of Gentiles (Rom. 2:14-15). If we are not justified or sanctified by the ten commandments we are not justified or sanctified by any law of commandments.

That is precisely Paul's point in Romans 7:6-25. While he was unregenerated (Rom. 7:6-13) the law could not justify him, give him life or save him but only expose and condemn all his efforts to conform to it.

When he became saved (Rom. 7:14-25) the law could not sanctify him or produce through him a godly life.

Why? Because the Law has no life or power to do anything but reveal sin and righteousness. Because the law cannot regenerate or sanctify anyone.

We are sanctified the very same way we are justified - "As you received the Lord Jesus Christ SO WALK ye in him" - Col. 2:6

"If we LIVE in the Spirit then let us WALK in the Spirit" - Gal. 5:25

If we are justified by faith in the Person and provision of Jesus Christ WITHOUT OUR WORKS then we are sanctified by faith by the Person and power of the indwelling Spirit of God WITHOUT OUR WORKS. If we received Christ by faith then we are to walk by faith in the power of the Holy Spirit as well.

This is the ONLY way to obtain justification and sanctification as there is NTHER WAY!

1 Cor. 1:30 But OF HIM are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:
31 That, according as it is written, He that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord.

The provision of Christ must justify us and the power of the Holy Spirit must sanctify us.

The Law serves only one purpose - to define sin and expose all men as sinners so as to lead them away from their own obedience and power to be justified and sanctified but lead them to faith in Christ for justification and faith in the Holy Spirit's power for sanctification.

All those who live by faith and walk by faith are those whose lives manifest obedience to the commandments of God.

All those who are justified by works and are sanctified by works are self-righteous hypocrits (Mt. 7:21-23) who are more ungodly than the harlots and publicans.

"the works of the law" EQUAL commandment keeping by your own person in your own power whereas justification by faith and sanctification by faith EQUAL justification by Christ's commandment keeping imputed to us and santification by the power of the Spirit working through us by faith.

Very well put Biblicist. On another thread late last night I argued with you. I believe the reason was I jumped posts too quickly and presumed you were writing when it was DHK. My fault. It was late and I don't think I was being clear enough in my posts mixing subjects and reading yours incorrectly. I apoligize and will be more careful. Carry on sir.

 

[Moriah]

Romans 7:1 ¶ Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?
2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
3 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.
4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God..........7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Take note that "the law" Paul has in view includes the ten commandments as verse 7 quotes the tenth commandment. Both the ceremonial and civil law are based upon the ten commandments as is all law including the law written upon the conscience of Gentiles (Rom. 2:14-15). If we are not justified or sanctified by the ten commandments we are not justified or sanctified by any law of commandments.

All that you quoted about Paul explaining about being dead to the law, that is because Jews did not want to sin by going from the Old Testament Law to the New Testament Law. Paul was explaining to them that a Jew was married to the Law of the Old Testament as long as that Jew was still alive, but since a person dies when they come to Christ, then they are not doing wrong by coming to Christ.

That is precisely Paul's point in Romans 7:6-25. While he was unregenerated (Rom. 7:6-13) the law could not justify him, give him life or save him but only expose and condemn all his efforts to conform to it.

Paul explains that when the law said do not do this and do not do that, that it made people want to sin. However, when we live through Jesus, we want to obey Jesus. When we live through the Spirit, we can overcome sin.

When he became saved (Rom. 7:14-25) the law could not sanctify him or produce through him a godly life.
Why? Because the Law has no life or power to do anything but reveal sin and righteousness. Because the law cannot regenerate or sanctify anyone.

Therefore, why do you still believe that Paul is speaking of the time AFTER Jesus saved him? You just contradicted yourself.

If we are justified by faith in the Person and provision of Jesus Christ WITHOUT OUR WORKS then we are sanctified by faith by the Person and power of the indwelling Spirit of God WITHOUT OUR WORKS. If we received Christ by faith then we are to walk by faith in the power of the Holy Spirit as well.

It was and is always evil to do wrong. It was and is always right to do good. The works of the law are circumcision, sin offerings, gift offerings, ceremonial washings, external regulations applying until the time of the new order, see Hebrews 9:10.

All those who are justified by works and are sanctified by works are self-righteous hypocrits (Mt. 7:21-23) who are more ungodly than the harlots and publicans.

Who are you calling self-righteous hypocrites? You quote Matthew 7:21-23 as if it is about self-righteous hypocrites. Matthew 7:21-23 is about people who are EVIL DOERS.

"the works of the law" EQUAL commandment keeping by your own person in your own power whereas justification by faith and sanctification by faith EQUAL justification by Christ's commandment keeping imputed to us and santification by the power of the Spirit working through us by faith.

You are confused. We have to obey Jesus.

 

[DHK]

You are confused. We have to obey Jesus.

Do we have to obey Jesus in order to be saved?
How many works does one have to do before one is saved?

 

[Moriah]

Do we have to obey Jesus in order to be saved?

We have to believe and obey Jesus (Acts 2:38; Acts 5:32). We have to admit we are sinners we have to repent. John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus. He came preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins (Luke 1:76-80). We are still to confess that we are sinners, and to repent, to prepare the way for Jesus Christ into our lives.
We have to call on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:9;13).

How many works does one have to do before one is saved?

When God accepts you, then He will give you His Holy Spirit, Acts 15:8.

 

[DHK]

We have to believe and obey Jesus (Acts 2:38; Acts 5:32). We have to admit we are sinners we have to repent. John the baptizer prepared the way for Jesus. He came preaching a baptism of repentance for the forgiveness of sins (Luke 1:76-80). We are still to confess that we are sinners, and to repent, to prepare the way for Jesus Christ into our lives.
We have to call on the name of the Lord (Romans 10:9;13).


When God accepts you, then He will give you His Holy Spirit, Acts 15:8.

Soooo,
1. Believe,
2. obey.....
3. admit we are sinners.
4. repent.
5. baptism.
6 Confess
7. repent
8. Call on his name.

Does that about cover it? Are those the works we must do, and is that the order we must do them in? Please be specific. I don't want to miss anything.

 

[Moriah]

Soooo,
1. Believe,
2. obey.....
3. admit we are sinners.
4. repent.
5. baptism.
6 Confess
7. repent
8. Call on his name.

Does that about cover it? Are those the works we must do, and is that the order we must do them in? Please be specific. I don't want to miss anything.

DHK,
Do not give up. Be like the widow; be like the one knocking on the door when the owner was in bed. Get forceful about it. Read the Bible to get Jesus’ teachings. Obey what Jesus says to do. If you do what Jesus says, you will be one who loves him, the Father will love you, and they will make their home with you.

 

[DHK]

DHK,
Do not give up. Be like the widow; be like the one knocking on the door when the owner was in bed. Get forceful about it. Read the Bible to get Jesus’ teachings. Obey what Jesus says to do. If you do what Jesus says, you will be one who loves him, the Father will love you, and they will make their home with you.

I know what the Bible teaches Moriah.
I am confused as to what you think the Bible teaches.
Do you believe that baptism is necessary for salvation?