Dear Professing Christian Who Swears Now More Than Ever

[Protestant]

The question was asked:

Should I wonder if I were truly saved since I swear now more than ever?

Dear Professing Christian Who Swears Now More Than Ever:

Unlike the false assurance given you by Dr. John R. Rice, the Bible gives no such claim.

You have good cause to question your salvation.

There is no magical formula to recite or ritual to perform or membership to join which will guarantee you are now a child of God.

The Bible teaches the necessity of true sorrow for your sin.

The Bible teaches the necessity of trusting in the biblical Jesus for all things, including forgiveness of sins.

Furthermore, the Bible teaches the necessity of the new birth from above by the Spirit.

This spiritual birth is the gift of God which cannot be earned or bought.

In fact, all the spiritual gifts are from God, including repentance and faith to trust in Christ.

Currently, you are exhibiting the life of a man still very much walking in the flesh, fearlessly taking the Lord’s name in vain along with other profanities.

We call this common phenomenon the testimony of the ‘carnal Christian.’

A carnal Christian is one who professes Jesus Christ as Savior, yet does not exhibit the necessary characteristics of a biblical Christian.

By that I mean he is unregenerate, devoid of the Spirit, claiming to be that which he is not.

Jesus and His Apostles have written countless examples of this phenomenon, as have innumerable Christians throughout the Church Age.

There are three types of carnal unregenerate professing Christians:

1. The superficial who make an initial profession and then continue on with their lives as usual.

2. The moderately religious who now read the Bible and are involved in church, making an outward show of their religiosity.

3. The very religious. These are pastors and church leaders who garner the respect of their less religious congregants.

Jesus is emphatic that Christians have discernment in detecting the true Christian from the false.

The fruit of their lives, as well as the fruit of their beliefs and teachings are to be considered.

Paul warns of false apostles who minister under the authority of Satan, who poses as an Angel of Light.

However, consider this Scripture:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

Jesus promises the Elect, those freely chosen by the Father for salvation, will not ultimately be deceived, though the deception will be powerful.

So my prayer is that you be not deceived:

For without holiness no man will see the Lord.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Carnal Christians refuse to lose their carnal life.

May you not continue to be counted among them.

 

[Iconoclast]

The question was asked:

Should I wonder if I were truly saved since I swear now more than ever?

Dear Professing Christian Who Swears Now More Than Ever:

Unlike the false assurance given you by Dr. John R. Rice, the Bible gives no such claim.

You have good cause to question your salvation.

There is no magical formula to recite or ritual to perform or membership to join which will guarantee you are now a child of God.

The Bible teaches the necessity of true sorrow for your sin.

The Bible teaches the necessity of trusting in the biblical Jesus for all things, including forgiveness of sins.

Furthermore, the Bible teaches the necessity of the new birth from above by the Spirit.

This spiritual birth is the gift of God which cannot be earned or bought.

In fact, all the spiritual gifts are from God, including repentance and faith to trust in Christ.

Currently, you are exhibiting the life of a man still very much walking in the flesh, fearlessly taking the Lord’s name in vain along with other profanities.

We call this common phenomenon the testimony of the ‘carnal Christian.’

A carnal Christian is one who professes Jesus Christ as Savior, yet does not exhibit the necessary characteristics of a biblical Christian.

By that I mean he is unregenerate, devoid of the Spirit, claiming to be that which he is not.

Jesus and His Apostles have written countless examples of this phenomenon, as have innumerable Christians throughout the Church Age.

There are three types of carnal unregenerate professing Christians:

1. The superficial who make an initial profession and then continue on with their lives as usual.

2. The moderately religious who now read the Bible and are involved in church, making an outward show of their religiosity.

3. The very religious. These are pastors and church leaders who garner the respect of their less religious congregants.

Jesus is emphatic that Christians have discernment in detecting the true Christian from the false.

The fruit of their lives, as well as the fruit of their beliefs and teachings are to be considered.

Paul warns of false apostles who minister under the authority of Satan, who poses as an Angel of Light.

However, consider this Scripture:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

Jesus promises the Elect, those freely chosen by the Father for salvation, will not ultimately be deceived, though the deception will be powerful.

So my prayer is that you be not deceived:

For without holiness no man will see the Lord.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Carnal Christians refuse to lose their carnal life.

May you not continue to be counted among them.

This is the correct response..thanks for posting

 

[DHK]

The question was asked:

Should I wonder if I were truly saved since I swear now more than ever?

Dear Professing Christian Who Swears Now More Than Ever:

Unlike the false assurance given you by Dr. John R. Rice, the Bible gives no such claim.

You have good cause to question your salvation.

Your OP, as stated, is false.
It is also based on libel, false accusations, and personal attack.
Therefore there is nothing of value here to debate.
As long as you are going to attack the brethren you should just leave the premises. Leave your keys at the desk and your deposit will be returned to you.

Since your premise is false so are all your conclusions.
But here is what the truth is.
People don't give assurance.

It is God that gives an assurance of salvation. He does so through His Word.
"He that hath the Son hath life; he that hath not the Son hath not life."
That is a very simple assurance; there are many more, especially in that fifth chapter of First John.
BTW, John R. Rice would have taught you that.

If anyone here is trusting in their "election" to make it to heaven they may never make it.
How do they know that they are elect? By their works or by their faith?
Then is salvation by works or by faith?
Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved.
John R. Rice never said anything different.

 

[Iconoclast]

"DHK

Your OP, as stated, is false.

The OP is not false but true...here is the OP;

The question was asked:

Should I wonder if I were truly saved since I swear now more than ever?

Dear Professing Christian Who Swears Now More Than Ever:

This question was asked.....and protestants response is right on...

It is also based on libel, false accusations, and personal attack.
Therefore there is nothing of value here to debate

. No...it is based on another thread...

As long as you are going to attack the brethren you should just leave the premises. Leave your keys at the desk and your deposit will be returned to you.

And yet....it is you who offer this attack upon Protestant once again. This is a lack of love on your part. this is a cruel post. Perhaps it is you who need to take your own suggestion as you attack the brethren day by day.

Since your premise is false so are all your conclusions.

His premise is true....just because you declare to the world that it is false does not make it so....No one has made you BB pontiff. In fact as everyone see's you attack the brothers, edit and delete threads that show your error, it might be time for you to step down.

But here is what the truth is.

So here it is .... pontiff DHK is going to speak infallibly now...this is the DHK board, not the BB.

If anyone here is trusting in their "election" to make it to heaven they may never make it.

This is an off topic posting, but it shows your agenda once again...you oppose the doctrines of grace.

let's see what Protestant wrote;

You have good cause to question your salvation.

There is no magical formula to recite or ritual to perform or membership to join which will guarantee you are now a child of God.

Thumbsup

The Bible teaches the necessity of true sorrow for your sin.
The Bible teaches the necessity of trusting in the biblical Jesus for all things, including forgiveness of sins.
Furthermore, the Bible teaches the necessity of the new birth from above by the Spirit.
This spiritual birth is the gift of God which cannot be earned or bought.

Yes...these are all true and helpfulThumbsup

In fact, all the spiritual gifts are from God, including repentance and faith to trust in Christ.

yes...good teaching

Currently, you are exhibiting the life of a man still very much walking in the flesh, fearlessly taking the Lord’s name in vain along with other profanities.
We call this common phenomenon the testimony of the ‘carnal Christian.’
A carnal Christian is one who professes Jesus Christ as Savior, yet does not exhibit the necessary characteristics of a biblical Christian.
By that I mean he is unregenerate, devoid of the Spirit, claiming to be that which he is not.

pt 2 coming....

 

[Iconoclast]

pt2-

Jesus and His Apostles have written countless examples of this phenomenon, as have innumerable Christians throughout the Church Age.

There are three types of carnal unregenerate professing Christians:

yes...

1. The superficial who make an initial profession and then continue on with their lives as usual.

2. The moderately religious who now read the Bible and are involved in church, making an outward show of their religiosity.

3. The very religious. These are pastors and church leaders who garner the respect of their less religious congregants.

yes there is evidence of this
Jesus is emphatic that Christians have discernment in detecting the true Christian from the false.

The fruit of their lives, as well as the fruit of their beliefs and teachings are to be considered.

Paul warns of false apostles who minister under the authority of Satan, who poses as an Angel of Light

.

He did warn of this....Cautious

However, consider this Scripture:

For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

25 Behold, I have told you before.

Jesus promises the Elect, those freely chosen by the Father for salvation, will not ultimately be deceived, though the deception will be powerful.

Here the elect are the true Christians.....He is not speaking of the doctrine of election at all...it is already assumed...

So my prayer is that you be not deceived:

For without holiness no man will see the Lord.

Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.

For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: and whosoever will lose his life for my sake shall find it.

Carnal Christians refuse to lose their carnal life.

May you not continue to be counted among them.

Good caution!!!!

 

[DHK]

"DHK

The OP is not false but true...here is the OP;

The OP is stated thusly:

The question was asked:

Should I wonder if I were truly saved since I swear now more than ever?

Dear Professing Christian Who Swears Now More Than Ever:

Unlike the false assurance given you by Dr. John R. Rice, the Bible gives no such claim.

It is an attack on John R. Rice.

No need to read your part 2.
This is all that needs to be said.
Attack threads ought to be shut down.

 

[Iconoclast]

The OP is stated thusly:

It is an attack on John R. Rice.

No need to read your part 2.
This is all that needs to be said.
Attack threads ought to be shut down.

My post does not mention Jr rice. ...the op is the question...you are just censoring who you do not agree with.
You removed my other thread because it quoted you in a way you did not like.
Do you think no one sees what you are doing?

 

[Rippon]

It is an attack on John R. Rice.
Attack threads ought to be shut down.

You display such hypocrisy DHK. You have brazenly attacked John Calvin over and over again ad nauseam, yet you will not countenance any criticism of JRR. That is inconsistent to say the very least. What is it with you? Are you blind to your double-standards? What, someone dead for 35 years is hands-off --but someone dead for 451 years is open-season? You have constantly lied about Calvin --saying the most malicious things possible --but you feel that you have free rein to do so. Something does not add up --your lack of consistency and unbridled hatred of anything pertaining to Calvinism.

 

[DHK]

My post does not mention Jr rice. ...the op is the question...you are just censoring who you do not agree with.
You removed my other thread because it quoted you in a way you did not like.
Do you think no one sees what you are doing?

I didn't say what you quoted mentioned J.R. Rice.
I said the OP: mentioned J.R. Rice, which it does. It is a hate-filled attack on his person and position.
If Protestant had any thing of value to state then he could state it in a theological manner without attacking Godly people. But that isn't the case here is it?

 

[DHK]

You display such hypocrisy DHK. You have brazenly attacked John Calvin over and over again ad nauseam, yet you will not countenance any criticism of JRR. That is inconsistent to say the very least. What is it with you? Are you blind to your double-standards? What, someone dead for 35 years is hands-off --but someone dead for 451 years is open-season? You have constantly lied about Calvin --saying the most malicious things possible --but you feel that you have free rein to do so. Something does not add up --your lack of consistency and unbridled hatred of anything pertaining to Calvinism.

Your ad hominem is noted.
There is a difference. John Calvin was a hate-filled Presbyterian who hated Baptists and persecuted them even to death. Here is a good quote for you:

3. In the days of King Edward VI of England, Calvin wrote a letter to Lord Protector Somerset and urged him to put Anabaptists to death: “These altogether deserve to be well punished by the sword, seeing that they do conspire against God, who had set him in his royal seat” (John Christian, A History of the Baptists, Vol. 1, chap. 15).

4. Historian John Christian observes that Calvin “was responsible in a large measure for the demon of hate and fierce hostility which the Baptists of England had to encounter.”

http://www.wayoflife.org/database/protestantpersecutions.html

Wonderful, Godly, man--full of the fruit of the Spirit, wasn't he? Don't be so deluded.
We have all discussed the Reformers who lived half a millennium removed from us.
But to tear down a Godly fundamental Baptist who is, as you say, only thirty years or so removed from our time, whose grandson is still a member here, and to call him unsaved for no credible reason, is atrocious and not worthy of any respect whatsoever.

 

[Deacon]

The Saturday morning bible study I attend had an elderly gent who is retired Navy.
It's a rare morning when some curse word doesn't slip out of his mouth.
Love the guy, he's a great salty servant of God.

"If you obey for a thousand years you are no more accepted than when you first believed. Your acceptance is based upon Christ's righteousness." (Paul Tripp)

Rob

 

[Rippon]

There is a difference. John Calvin was a hate-filled Presbyterian

And there you go compounding your lies. You are the one who is consumed with hate.

who hated Baptists

Baptists didn't exist in Calvin's time. Read real history, for a change of pace.

and persecuted them even to death.

He did no such thing. You are sinning up a storm by saying wicked things like that.

Here is a good quote for you:

Your quote was in error. It should read:"Both alike deserve to be repressed by the sword which is committed unto you, since they not only attack the king, but strive with God, who has placed him upon a royal throne and has committed to you the protection as well of his person as of his majesty."

Do you have any idea that John Calvin was dealing with Romans 13 here? Are you so theologically deprived that you don't have a clue?This is Romans 13:1-5 in the NIV:
"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience."

Wonderful, Godly, man--full of the fruit of the Spirit, wasn't he?

Indeed he was, by near universal accaim by unbiased observers.

We have all discussed the Reformers who lived half a millennium removed from us.

You haven't so much 'discussed' as much as going in the sewer to malign him at every opportunity.

But to tear down a Godly fundamental Baptist

JRR spoke and wrote words that need to be dealt with. He erred greatly regarding important doctrines. Even a fellow Fundamentalist called him a theological train wreck. He can be criticized like any other human being. What makes him so untouchable? As I said earlier, you are terribly inconsistent. You employ double standards for your convenince --but it is very transparent what you are doing.

Who cares if he was a Fundamental Baptist? What in the end does that mean? Is he somehow deserving of something meritorious for his denominational affilation?

John Calvin was one who walked with God yet you despise him and continue to lie about him with reckless abandon. You have no room to talk.

 

[DHK]

And there you go compounding your lies. You are the one who is consumed with hate.

I did not lie and neither am I filled with hate. I truly feel sorry for you.

Baptists didn't exist in Calvin's time. Read real history, for a change of pace.

I don't share your view of Baptist history. You should get the book that was being quoted, J.T. Christian's, "A History of the Baptists," and read it. It would be a good read for you.

He did no such thing. You are sinning up a storm by saying wicked things like that.

We have had this discussion before--ad infinitum. History is on my side, not yours.
I tend to believe the quote in the book not you. But even if you were right:
"Both alike deserve to be repressed by the sword."
What do you think that means? That they should be 'knighted'???

Your quote was in error. It should read:"Both alike deserve to be repressed by the sword which is committed unto you, since they not only attack the king, but strive with God, who has placed him upon a royal throne and has committed to you the protection as well of his person as of his majesty."

Whoops, the principle of soul liberty just went out the door, didn't it?
Kill (or repress with the sword) those who strive with God, that god being Calvin of course!

Do you have any idea that John Calvin was dealing with Romans 13 here? Are you so theologically deprived that you don't have a clue?This is Romans 13:1-5 in the NIV:
"Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. For the one in authority is God's servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God's servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience."

Yep! If you don't agree with Calvin then get yourself killed in the process.

JRR spoke and wrote words that need to be dealt with. He erred greatly regarding important doctrines. Even a fellow Fundamentalist called him a theological train wreck. He can be criticized like any other human being. What makes him so untouchable? As I said earlier, you are terribly inconsistent. You employ double standards for your convenince --but it is very transparent what you are doing.

JRR was inserted into his OP for no cause at all. Deacon just answered the OP. Read his response. It has nothing to do with JRR. Neither does JRR have anything to do with the actual subject as Deacon aptly pointed (indirectly) by his response.
Protestant simply attacked him for no reason.
It is possible to state a theological position without attacking a person. The thread should not be about attacking a person. Look at the title of this thread. What does that have to do with JRR??

Who cares if he was a Fundamental Baptist? What in the end does that mean? Is he somehow deserving of something meritorious for his denominational affilation?

It has nothing to do with the topic of this thread.
It is against the rules to call those that we know are saved brethren "without the Spirit of God" or unsaved.
Unlike your ODT John R. Rice (for many of us) is contemporary. At least he is with me. I have met him personally, sat under his preaching many times. I know who he is. I can count him as a friend. Unlike you he is not or was not a dead theologian. To me he is or was a living person with whom I have living or real memories. So does his grandson who wrote his biography and is a member here. If you want to know more about JRR, then go and ask John of Japan for his book and read up on him. Stop attacking him here in this thread and calling him unsaved, unregenerate, and without the Spirit of God as Protestant does.

John Calvin was one who walked with God yet you despise him and continue to lie about him with reckless abandon. You have no room to talk.

Yeah, right!

1. Calvin enforced Christian doctrine and principles at the point of the sword. In October 1563, the Geneva government burned to death Michael Servetus for heresy. Servetus held unitarian views and was definitely a false teacher, but the New Testament nowhere instructs the churches to kill false teachers. Servetus’ death sentence was supported not only by Calvin, but also by Melanchthon in Germany and Bullinger in Geneva and by other Protestant leaders who were consulted about the case.

2. Other men were also put to death under Calvin’s tenure. “So entirely was he in favour of persecuting measures, that he wrote a treatise in defence of them, maintaining the lawfulness of putting heretics to death; and he reduced these rigid theories to practice, in his conduct towards Castellio, Jerom Bolsee, and Servetus, whose fates are too generally known to require being here repeated. At the council of Geneva, 1632, Nicholas Anthoine was condemned to be first hanged and then burned for opposing the doctrine of the Trinity...” (J.J. Stockdale, The History of the Inquisitions, 1810, p. xxviii).

http://www.wayoflife.org/database/protestantpersecutions.html

 

[Iconoclast]

The Saturday morning bible study I attend had an elderly gent who is retired Navy.
It's a rare morning when some curse word doesn't slip out of his mouth.
Love the guy, he's a great salty servant of God.

"If you obey for a thousand years you are no more accepted than when you first believed. Your acceptance is based upon Christ's righteousness." (Paul Tripp)

Rob

26 If any man among you seem to be religious, and bridleth not his tongue, but deceiveth his own heart, this man's religion is vain.

Some things need to be left to God. James does not give assurance yo such a person.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

I did not lie and neither am I filled with hate

Your posts tell a different story

It is against the rules to call those that we know are saved brethren "without the Spirit of God" or unsaved

REALLY......AND YET DHK POSTED THIS SAME THING,,,,
this was post 2 in the closed thread on carnality

Had Protestant "the Spirit of God" plus some spiritual discernment and an ability to study this passage he would have never made the foolish comment he just made. I didn't bother reading the rest of your post. I stopped here when you posted this verse, far out of its context making it mean something it doesn't. Shame on you.

.

 

[Iconoclast]

DHK

I didn't say what you quoted mentioned J.R. Rice.
I said the OP: mentioned J.R. Rice, which it does.

While JRRICE is mentioned....he was not the main discussion of the OP.

It is a hate-filled attack on his person and position

Protestant evidently is not a big fan of your hero. There is no rule saying he cannot express his view. Everyone does not have to agree with you.
As Rippon has pointed out, you speak against good reformed men all the time.
You ignored the whole discussion that the rest of us took part in.
No one forced you to read it or participate. You hate what we believe so much it is affecting your judgment.

If Protestant had any thing of value to state then he could state it in a theological manner without attacking Godly people.

He did offer theological discussion which you ignored because you cannot answer it.

But that isn't the case here is it?

You are abusing your position as a moderator. Stop editing and censoring who you do not agree with.

 

[Protestant]

DHK


While JRRICE is mentioned....he was not the main discussion of the OP.

Protestant evidently is not a big fan of your hero. There is no rule saying he cannot express his view. Everyone does not have to agree with you.
As Rippon has pointed out, you speak against good reformed men all the time.
You ignored the whole discussion that the rest of us took part in.
No one forced you to read it or participate. You hate what we believe so much it is affecting your judgment.

He did offer theological discussion which you ignored because you cannot answer it.


You are abusing your position as a moderator. Stop editing and censoring who you do not agree with.

There are two issues brought to light in the OP.

1. The fact there are many professing Christians who are not spiritually renewed. They are carnal professing Christians.

2. The fact there are many professing Christian pastors/teachers/leaders who do not affirm the abundant scriptural teachings which deny carnal Christianity to be genuine Christianity.

Genuine Christians are spiritually renewed and are efficaciously brought under obedience by the power of God.

As sons of God, adopted in Christ, the Father promises to bring His sinning sons under obedience through necessary chastisements. (Hebrews 12:5-11)

Those who continue in sin without the correction of the Father are “bastards, and not sons.”

In other words, they are not genuine Christians.

They are carnal professing Christians who walk after the flesh.

If we say we have fellowship with Him, and walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth…….

He that saith, I know him, and keepeth not His commandments, is a liar, and the truth is not in him. (1 John 1:6; 2:4)

Peter, speaking by the Spirit, exhorts us to obedience, not as before our conversion:

Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ;

14 As obedient children, not fashioning yourselves according to the former lusts in your ignorance: (1 Peter 1:13-14)

False Assurance Gives the Naïve False Security

If any man speak, let him speak as the oracles of God; if any man minister, let him do it as of the ability which God giveth: that God in all things may be glorified through Jesus Christ, to whom be praise and dominion for ever and ever. Amen. (1 Peter 4:11)

Those who claim leadership roles in the Body of Christ bear increased responsibility before God.

For they have the ‘care of souls.’

To tell a half truth is to tell a lie.

How often have we heard the following:

“If you prayed that prayer in sincerity, you are now a Christian.”

If that formula were true, Christianity would have dominated our society by now, bringing with it the necessary godly fruits of the Spirit.

Instead, false, carnal Christianity has, for decades, maintained a stronghold in the professing Christian Church.

We know this to be true when famous professing Christian leaders such as Billy Graham, Jerry Falwell, John R. Rice, and Joel Osteen applaud the Pope’s extraordinary Christian moral character and humility, calling him a brother in Christ.

Unlike these modern-day prophets, the prophets of old have all understood the outrageous anti-Christian nature of the Papacy and the Church of Rome.

As did the millions of innocent martyrs put to death by the Papal authority.

Satan bound at the cross?

Let’s get real.

Same-sex marriage between pot-smoking ‘Christians’ will soon be the norm.