Death Panel

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

That would be an expensive exercise in futility.

Exactly!!

Good enough reason to repeal it.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

What comes to mind is, in another thread he stated that the woman who's insurance company had spent in the 7 figures to treat her cancer still had her treatment plan under zerocare, even though she could not continue to see her own doctors, or even be treated in the same hospital.

Here he's saying a switch in medicine is the equivalent of having her health care taken away.

I call that bothsidesofthemouthitis.

The point about me not caring about his wife's sight is a red herring, and has nothing to do with the subject being discussed. It is simply a personal attack, meant to distract. If he wants to talk about personalities over facts, I see no reason to enter a discussion with him.

 

[Crabtownboy]

What comes to mind is, in another thread he stated that the woman who's insurance company had spent in the 7 figures to treat her cancer still had her treatment plan under zerocare, even though she could not continue to see her own doctors, or even be treated in the same hospital.

Here he's saying a switch in medicine is the equivalent of having her health care taken away.

Total and probably intentional misrepresentation. We are talking about "death panels". Some say they do not exist in the insurance companies. I say they do and gave an example, not of death but a decision that may lead to blindness. It is the same type of decision, driven by profits, that leads to denials by insurance companies that results in some people's death.

Your callousness toward the welfare of others is sad, especially for one who claims he is a Christian ... a follower of Christ. Christ was very concerned about the welfare of others.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I think my representation is spot on. You just have a revulsion to your own hypocrisy.

You have not shown anything. You have told a story, and you have shown yourself to be untrustworthy. You will make up stories about anything, and give links that go nowhere to prove the points you say they make.

I don't believe you. I don't think you are being straight with us.

And the personal attack is just idiotic. You're the one making excuses for this mess. Own some of it.

 

[OldRegular]

Your callousness toward the welfare of others is sad, especially for one who claims he is a Christian ... a follower of Christ. Christ was very concerned about the welfare of others.

OK Crabbie! Don't get too excited about someone else's concern for the welfare of others. The party-of-death, the reactionary-democrat party, celebrated abortion last year at its national convention to renominate the abortionist-in-chief, Obama. A "Christian" who repeatedly supports the party-of-death, the reactionary-democrat party, the abortionist-in-chief, and thus the slaughter of the innocents, has no right to complain about the morality of anyone.

You know Hitler only slaughtered 6 million Jews and this country has slaughtered 55 million unborn children, half of them female and over 13 million blacks. And you, and anyone who votes for the party of death, supports this continued slaughter.

Furthermore, I presented following in a recent post CTB so don't get too moral on us:

Do you know what the leading cause of death in the African American Community since 1973 is? Think about it for a minute. Is it heart disease-2,266,789 deaths since 1973, cancer-1,638,350, or accidents-370,723? Is it AIDS-203,695, or violent crimes-306, 313? There is one possibility that is often overlooked. It happens 1452 times a day in our community. It has taken over 13 million Black lives within the last 30 years. It has taken 1/3 of our present population. What is it? ABORTION!

Don't believe it? Well, you don't have to, but you would be a fool not to because the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention has provided the tragic statistics. According to the CDC, since 1973, the year of the Supreme Court Decision Roe vs. Wade, 13 million (13,000,000) African American lives have been lost to abortion. The CDC reports that of the approximately 4000 abortions that are performed daily in the United States, 1452 of them are performed on African American women and their pre-born children. This means that although African Americans represent only 12% of the population of the United States, they account for 35% of the abortions performed in this country.

http://www.nbccongress.org/features/...no_more_01.asp

 

[righteousdude2]

I think....

http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304527504579171710423780446

...Since March 2007 United Healthcare has paid $1.2 million to help keep me alive, and it has never once questioned any treatment or procedure recommended by my medical team. The company pays a fair price to the doctors and hospitals, on time, and is responsive to the emergency treatment requirements of late-stage cancer. Its caring people in the claims office have been readily available to talk to me and my providers.

But in January, United Healthcare sent me a letter announcing that they were pulling out of the individual California market. The company suggested I look to Covered California starting in October.

You would think it would be simple to find a health-exchange plan that allows me, living in San Diego, to continue to see my primary oncologist at Stanford University and my primary care doctors at the University of California, San Diego. Not so. UCSD has agreed to accept only one Covered California plan—a very restrictive Anthem EPO Plan. EPO stands for exclusive provider organization, which means the plan has a small network of doctors and facilities and no out-of-network coverage (as in a preferred-provider organization plan) except for emergencies. Stanford accepts an Anthem PPO plan but it is not available for purchase in San Diego (only Anthem HMO and EPO plans are available in San Diego)....

Tell me some more about the GOP's war on women.

....if there are those sitting in judgement of whether someone is worth spending more money on to give them a few more years of life....the one who is left to die for the sake of the almighty dollar, just might decide to take a few public officials along with them. In other words, I'd be careful if I were those on these committees. Someone may grab their Bushmaster and a few hundred rounds and seek them [or someone in their family or the government in general] out, and shoot the place up!

And who could blame them? After all, we all have the inalienable right to live, so if someone is infringing upon that right, wouldn't that justify self-defense??? :wavey:

 

[Aaron]

When the insurance company was notified of this and ask for an override so she could get the medication that helps, their answer was, "tough not our problem", we still will not cover the older effective medication.

Liar.

This day, we make it a point to express thanks to God for all His blessings, while CBT emulates the father lies.

 

[Crabtownboy]

My wife's glaucoma specialist is taking this a step further to put more pressure in the insurance company. Maybe they will relent and allow m wife to continue using Lumigan that keep her eye pressure low enough that the central optic nerve will not be damaged.

I will keep you up to date on what the insurance blindness panel decides. So far they have been very intransigent in refusing her this medication that she had been using for about six or seven years.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

CTB, my sympathies for what you're going through. What is beyond me, though, is now that you have seen what happens when one unscrupulous company -- one out of thousands -- does this to its insured, why would you want everyone in the country to undergo such a travesty???

By supporting this unmitigated pile of bull excrement known as the ACA, that is exactly what you are doing. The "death panel" the socialists have been denying and labeling "The Big Lie" for four years actually exists. Sarah Palin lifted the veil on it in her book last year, and no less a socialist light than Howard Dean has confirmed it.

Shame on you.

 

[Crabtownboy]

CTB, my sympathies for what you're going through. What is beyond me, though, is now that you have seen what happens when one unscrupulous company -- one out of thousands -- does this to its insured, why would you want everyone in the country to undergo such a travesty???

Thanks This number. I do not consider them unscrupulous. It is one of the largest companies in the US. This is business as normal. Every insurance company makes this kind of decision. I also understand that the person or panel is simply following directions from management. They want and need their job. Management is beholding to its share holders, and thus profit is more important than peoples health as far as the bottom line is concerned.

I believe I said months ago that I was not sure if I supported Obamacare or not. I did not and do not know enough about it to decide. I do know from talking to a number of doctors that I know they all said that more people will have insurance than under the current system. I do not think Obamacare is perfect. I know the current system is not perfect.

I know from experience in Europe their system covers everyone. No one is without health coverage. Perhaps we should look closely at how they handle this very knotty problem.

 

[just-want-peace]

CTB:

I know from experience in Europe their system covers everyone. No one is without health coverage. Perhaps we should look closely at how they handle this very knotty problem.

The bolded above is key!

How much of the aid ($) sent to many countries is used for the intended purpose?

How much of the aid (food/clothing) sent to many countries is used for the intended purpose?

I don't know because I have no control over such, BUT, I do have control over what I give to a specific charity, so I can determine whether I trust that charity to do as I interpret their mission statement says and give/not give accordingly.

Bottom line re: your quote; everybody may be "covered", but does everybody actually benefit from this "coverage"?

If you are diagnosed with a fast growing cancer, does the bureacracy (sp) take so long to navigate that you are dead before you can get diagnosed/treated? IOW, being "covered", is not the panacea it sounds like!

 

[Don]

"More people will have insurance." EXACTLY. Not necessarily healthcare; as CTB has found, the insurance company will still control what they will pay for, and you, me, and everyone else will still be responsible for paying what the insurance company decides is "beyond necessary" care -- and with that reality smack dab in our faces, how can we can we not realize that "a 'death panel' by any other name"?....

 

[Bro. Curtis]

And now they want a do-over.

Perhaps some apologies are in order. Every thinking person here knew this wouldn't work. We were not treated very well by this poster and no. Now that this has blown up you don't get to point at Europe and change the subject.

Stunning admission by CTBoy. Sometimes not even he can hide the truth.

 

[Don]

I know from experience in Europe their system covers everyone. No one is without health coverage. Perhaps we should look closely at how they handle this very knotty problem.

CTB -- what is the average take-home pay of the people in the country where you are/were as opposed to average take-home pay of Americans? What's the average weekly grocery cost of a family of four in that country as opposed to America? What's the percentage of families on government-assistance food programs as opposed to America? And what's the average "federal" taxes for that family as opposed to Americans?

I lived for three years in England; I can guarantee you that I didn't pay nearly as much taxes, and shuddered to think about trying to support my family on how much my neighbors were bringing home.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Thanks This number. I do not consider them unscrupulous. It is one of the largest companies in the US. This is business as normal. Every insurance company makes this kind of decision.

Sorry, CTB, but that simply is not true. What you have described is unscrupulous. Despite what you and others who favor government control of the healthcare system want to claim about the free enterprise system, the vast majority of insurance companies do not intervene between doctor and patient. Your insurance company is unscrupulous.

I also understand that the person or panel is simply following directions from management. They want and need their job. Management is beholding to its share holders, and thus profit is more important than peoples health as far as the bottom line is concerned.

That's a heart-rending soliloquy, but not truthful in the vast majority of cases. Unfortunately, for you and your wife, it is true, and you have my truly heartfelt prayers and sympathy. No one should have to go through that. But your insurance company is the exception, not the rule.

I believe I said months ago that I was not sure if I supported Obamacare or not. I did not and do not know enough about it to decide. I do know from talking to a number of doctors that I know they all said that more people will have insurance than under the current system.

That also is not true. You either didn't get that from doctors, or they were part of that white-lab-coated sycophantry that showed up at the White House to pronounce the ACA "good and well," despite knowing the exact opposite to be true.

I do not think Obamacare is perfect. I know the current system is not perfect.

No system is. But what we have -- or rather, had -- was far superior to government run healthcare. No system in the world ever attempted under the auspices of a government has ever worked. Nor will this one.

I know from experience in Europe their system covers everyone. No one is without health coverage. Perhaps we should look closely at how they handle this very knotty problem.

Perhaps you aren't aware of this, the European countries are dismantling government run healthcare.

CEPR: Spain’s Government and European Authorities Bent on Dismantling Welfare State

Why? Because it is too expensive and doesn't work. Additionally, they seem to be headed toward abandoning the universal welfare system that has marked -- and harmed -- Europe for decades. We have to ask, why, when the great experiment failed there, would we be aiming toward repeating it here?

 

[OldRegular]

I know from experience in Europe their system covers everyone. No one is without health coverage. Perhaps we should look closely at how they handle this very knotty problem.

You apparently have found out that Medical Insurance and Health Care are not the same. The Federal Government cannot operate anything efficiently and there is no appeal from their insanity!

 

[Bro. Curtis]

...She has two critically ill children and walks, point by point, through the problems that Obamacare poses for her family. The video is very instructive, as it goes beyond just the question of premiums and delves into the aspect of all the hidden charges within the law.

She notes:
1. Over the five years prior to Obamacare, her deductible had increased $50. Since Obamcare, it has increased $1200.
2. Her copay for the blood product she needs for her one of her children has increased 100%
3. Medical equipment that ill people use, such as the pumps, catheters, needles, tubing that she needs, all now have a “medical device tax” on them.
4. Medication that helped her son’s kidney condition for five to six years had a copay of $131. That copay is now $532.
5. They had no increase in premiums in 2009 and 2010. She notes in the video her premiums since Obamacare have increased $1528. She later adds in the description of the video that her premiums in 2014 will have increased $3066/year. She asks, where is that $2500 decrease that Obama promised?
6. Her medication copays used to be $4000 to $5000/year, now they are $10,000, a 100% increase since Obamacare passed.
7. Pattie also speaks about the reduction in care, noting the layoffs in hospitals that she has observed because of her experience with her children.
8. FLEX spending has dropped from $5000 to $2500.
9. Another hidden tax, not often mentioned- the ability to deduct medical expenses has changed. Whereas you used to be able to deduct if your medical expenses exceeded 7.5% of your AGI, now you can’t until it reaches past 10%, thus costing millions of families more and particularly causing economic harm to the sick....


http://weaselzippers.us/2013/12/01/how-obamacare-is-hurting-my-family-with-chronically-ill-kids/

 

[OldRegular]

...She has two critically ill children and walks, point by point, through the problems that Obamacare poses for her family. The video is very instructive, as it goes beyond just the question of premiums and delves into the aspect of all the hidden charges within the law.

She notes:
1. Over the five years prior to Obamacare, her deductible had increased $50. Since Obamcare, it has increased $1200.
2. Her copay for the blood product she needs for her one of her children has increased 100%
3. Medical equipment that ill people use, such as the pumps, catheters, needles, tubing that she needs, all now have a “medical device tax” on them.
4. Medication that helped her son’s kidney condition for five to six years had a copay of $131. That copay is now $532.
5. They had no increase in premiums in 2009 and 2010. She notes in the video her premiums since Obamacare have increased $1528. She later adds in the description of the video that her premiums in 2014 will have increased $3066/year. She asks, where is that $2500 decrease that Obama promised?
6. Her medication copays used to be $4000 to $5000/year, now they are $10,000, a 100% increase since Obamacare passed.
7. Pattie also speaks about the reduction in care, noting the layoffs in hospitals that she has observed because of her experience with her children.
8. FLEX spending has dropped from $5000 to $2500.
9. Another hidden tax, not often mentioned- the ability to deduct medical expenses has changed. Whereas you used to be able to deduct if your medical expenses exceeded 7.5% of your AGI, now you can’t until it reaches past 10%, thus costing millions of families more and particularly causing economic harm to the sick....


http://weaselzippers.us/2013/12/01/how-obamacare-is-hurting-my-family-with-chronically-ill-kids/

The simple truth is that Obamacare has nothing to do with healthcare it is a power grab by the reactionary-democrat party. The leaders of this party, particularly Harry Reid and Barak Obama, want a totalitarian federal government. I believe unless a drastic turn around occurs in 2014 and 2016 this country will soon cease to exist as the United States. A large number of states will join together and leave the union. They will have no recourse if they want to live as free people.

The democrat party is not a liberal party, it is not a progressive party. It is a reactionary party whose goal is to destroy that which I believe God gave us when we rebelled against the heavy hand of England. Now the reactionary-democrat party, Harry Reid, and Barak Obama are wielding that same heavy hand.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Well, it's like the Great Pretender said back in November when the first miserably low enrollment numbers came out:

[URL="http://twitchy.com/2013/11/14/he-feels-our-pain-president-math-is-hard-admits-buying-insurance-is-hard-too/]"Buying insurance is hard"[/URL]​

Yeah, so's being an effective leader, apparently.