Death Panels

[Bro. Curtis]

.....
Professor Pullicino claimed that far too often elderly patients who could live longer are placed on the LCP and it had now become an ‘assisted death pathway rather than a care pathway’.

He cited ‘pressure on beds and difficulty with nursing confused or difficult-to-manage elderly patients’ as factors......



http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-000-elderly-patients-year.html#ixzz1ySyQUiFr

 

[carpro]

That's Obamacare. If it survives.

 

[HankD]

That's Obamacare. If it survives.

It's the new patriotism for the elderly.

Hemlock anyone?


HankD

 

[billwald]

I challenge you all to suggest an alternative solution. Is the government or insurance companies obligated to keep every person alive as long as it is technically possible? If not, what is a "moral" cut off point?

My Old Man "cost" Medicare and AT&T more in his last two years than he grossed in 25 years. Was this "fair" and does every person "deserve" similar pay back?

 

[targus]

I challenge you all to suggest an alternative solution. Is the government or insurance companies obligated to keep every person alive as long as it is technically possible? If not, what is a "moral" cut off point?

My Old Man "cost" Medicare and AT&T more in his last two years than he grossed in 25 years. Was this "fair" and does every person "deserve" similar pay back?

"...difficult-to-manage elderly patients..."

Watch it billwald...

They are talking about you here. :laugh:

 

[mandym]

I challenge you all to suggest an alternative solution. Is the government or insurance companies obligated to keep every person alive as long as it is technically possible? If not, what is a "moral" cut off point?

My Old Man "cost" Medicare and AT&T more in his last two years than he grossed in 25 years. Was this "fair" and does every person "deserve" similar pay back?

Yes you work to keep people alive from womb to grave as long as possible.

 

[carpro]

My Old Man "cost" Medicare and AT&T more in his last two years than he grossed in 25 years. Was this "fair" and does every person "deserve" similar pay back?

So, why didn't you just kill him? Would have saved the government tons of money. Fair enough?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

So the zero heads go from "Yer only talking about death panels 'cuz Obama's black", to "we NEED death panels".

 

[HankD]

I challenge you all to suggest an alternative solution. Is the government or insurance companies obligated to keep every person alive as long as it is technically possible? If not, what is a "moral" cut off point?

Clean out the white house and the senate.
Smaller Government.
Use the ballot broom to sweep out all the perpetrators of waste, ignorance, pork and fraud.
Boot the unions out of politics.
No more corporate bailouts.
Rescind anti-capitalism legislation.
Rescind regulations which drive up health insurance rates (allow interstate choice of providers).
Tort reform in the medical sector.
Reform federal income tax system and greatly reduce or eliminate the IRS.
Reverse Roe vs. Wade (Besides protecting the innocent and the blessings thereof it will increases the tax payer population).

That's a start to free up and generate more funds for the elderly and other worthy needs (unlike Solyndra, wasteful government acencies and Hawaii junkets).

Orthers can add more if they wish but this should suffice.

The elderly are of the generation which went to war, worked and sacrificed to make this one possible.

Yes keep the elderly comfortable and alive as long as possible.
There is no moral cut off point.

HankD

 

[LadyEagle]

Amen, HankD, Amen! :thumbs:

 

[Crabtownboy]

So the zero heads go from "Yer only talking about death panels 'cuz Obama's black", to "we NEED death panels".

We already have death panels in the insurance companies who decided what will and will not be paid for ... thus deciding who will live and who probably will not live.

 

[mandym]

We already have death panels in the insurance companies who decided what will and will not be paid for ... thus deciding who will live and who probably will not live.

Figures you cannot see the difference.

 

[targus]

We already have death panels in the insurance companies who decided what will and will not be paid for ... thus deciding who will live and who probably will not live.

A completely uneducated claim.

An insurance policy is a negotiated legal contracto that specifies benefits and costs.

If the insurance company does not live up to the contract you have the option of suing.

You also have the option of changing insurance companies.

With Obamacare you get what the goverment deigns to give you - period.

 

[freeatlast]

I challenge you all to suggest an alternative solution. Is the government or insurance companies obligated to keep every person alive as long as it is technically possible? If not, what is a "moral" cut off point?

My Old Man "cost" Medicare and AT&T more in his last two years than he grossed in 25 years. Was this "fair" and does every person "deserve" similar pay back?

[SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0][SIZE=+0]Bill first I want to apologize to you for un-Christ like smart remarks and slander you have received over your post, and say that you raise a good point, but I would first say that I regret that this man was your "Old Man" and not your dad. For the rest I think you make a reasonable point. Just how much do we spend and for how long to keep someone breathing when they have no appreciable living? [/SIZE][/SIZE][/SIZE]
The problem here is even bigger then that. Do we really want the government or an outside entity like an insurance company making those calls. In years past we had a built in safety valve for this. It was the combination of no insurance along with the lack of medical ability to keep someone breathing when they would never again be able to contribute to themselves or others so they just died.
I am not so sure that our so called medical advances are always a blessing. For the believer this is an issue that the church needs to address in a Christ like manner instead of off the cuff emotionalism from pious hearts. We claim we are eager to meet our Master and then we seek to deny the person the meeting.
For one I think it is extremely important to talk about our last days and just how much care we get. Do we want to be kept alive breathing while we rot away in a body that will never again be of any practical use to us or would we prefer to leave this body to go and be with out Lord?
We have to be careful that we do not allow the government or other entities make decisions for us that we should have already made or else we end up with a myriad of Terri Schiavo’s. We have a responsibility and if we do not exercise it others will take it from us and do it for us. Throwing money at a body that will never recover to keep it breathing is not the answer and we need to face it.

 

[padredurand]

A completely uneducated claim.

An insurance policy is a negotiated legal contracto that specifies benefits and costs.

If the insurance company does not live up to the contract you have the option of suing.

You also have the option of changing insurance companies.

With Obamacare you get what the goverment deigns to give you - period.

You could always pay for care yourself. Just because the government puts a price tag on a human life doesn't mean you have to. My wife and I wiped out 30 years worth of savings and investments to pay for longterm care for our oldest child when all of the 'programs' failed to pay. I'll have plenty of time to rebuild the portfolio but only one opportunity to meet an acute crisis while it was happening.

 

[freeatlast]

You could always pay for care yourself. Just because the government puts a price tag on a human life doesn't mean you have to. My wife and I wiped out 30 years worth of savings and investments to pay for longterm care for our oldest child when all of the 'programs' failed to pay. I'll have plenty of time to rebuild the portfolio but only one opportunity to meet an acute crisis while it was happening.

With that I agree! :thumbs:

 

[Bro. Curtis]

We already have death panels in the insurance companies who decided what will and will not be paid for ... thus deciding who will live and who probably will not live.

Off topic. Start another thread.

 

[Robert Snow]

Off topic. Start another thread.

You just don't like his comments because it shows the foolishness of your OP.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

Start another thread to show all of us mean conservativesw all the people the insurance companies have killed.

Until then you are blowing smoke. But we're used to that.

 

[HankD]

Murder by any other name (e.g. patriotism): is still murder.

Consider Cap and Trade. The original reason that this bill was introduced was because of “global warming.” But that has turned into “climategate” because of falsified information that was released by a British blogger who managed to hack into some official government records. And as a result of alleged global warming, there has been talk of a food shortage, massive flooding and other natural disasters – hence, a country’s inability to sustain its population, thereby justifying the murder of babies and the elderly and making people feel good about it, because they are supposedly saving the planet -- and perhaps even being “patriotic.” Never mind that the pockets of the elite are being lined by bogus programs that tax Americans into oblivion and steal any wealth that anyone might have. Never mind that many companies are afraid to hire right now because they don’t know what kinds of insane and costly mandates will be put on them with the healthcare bill and cap and trade if these things pass. Many people get depressed when they have been unemployed for a long time. God forbid that this also would somehow be used to manipulate people into the above twisted form of patriotism.

http://www.examiner.com/article/abortion-touted-as-patriotic-duty

The basis of the Heathcare Bill is not to save life but money.

Thus we (the elderly, sick and infirmed) are to do our patriotic duty, help save the economy by committing suicide.

There are two states which have legalized self-murder, the States of Washington and Oregon.

The State of Washington (where I reside) calls it "Death with Dignity".
Oregon calls it what it is "Assisted Suicide".

The pre-bill propaganda always starts with people in a coma or paralyzed (ala Terri Schiavo) and the family "forced" into "compassionately pulling the plug".

Later it develops politically into something more (of course).

Not to long ago, I watched a local documentary where some poor soul here in WA who was suffering and diagnosed as terminal was counseled to "die with dignity".

He was conscious and in his right mind and actually didn't seem to be suffering that much. But he agreed (insistingly) and guess what, yes we were allowed to watch the entire process (they gave him a "cocktail") and he offed himself.

We were assured that this was a real "death with dignity" noting that he simply fell asleep and although it was not openly stated the idea was presented as as being a good alternative to saving time and resource for the family of the "dignified" one.

It was very troubling to me for several days and even now when I think about it again. I concluded shouldn't have watched it (but I did learn something).

Here is an example of a propagandized ad:

Defend dignity. Take action.

You are the key to ensuring well-crafted Death with Dignity laws for all Americans. With your financial and volunteer help, the Death with Dignity National Center, a 501(c)(3), non-partisan, non-profit organization, has been the leading advocate in the death with dignity movement. Member contributions helped us pass a new Death with Dignity law in Washington, defend the Oregon law, and provide education and outreach programs for the vitality of the death with dignity movement.

http://www.deathwithdignity.org/2008/11/04/washington-voters-approve-death-dignity-act

Sick.

HankD