Death penalty for fellow Christians

[freeatlast]

This is so off topic;
The book and this passage is dealing with Gnostics who had crept into the church and spread their false doctrine. Now John in the 5th chapter is finishing the letter and telling them to pray for these brothers. The passage is not speaking about one who is saved and one who is lost. In both cases the person is lost. However the passage is speaking of a person who claims to be saved, (Again keep in mind John was dealing with the problem of Gnosticism and they did not hold that Jesus actually had flesh and blood.) You might want to study their many false beliefs as they denied the actual living breathing Christ.


So John says if they see someone who is in sin ( that sin would be related to the Gnostics teaching which John has been dealing with) they can be prayed for, this is not a real brother but someone who calls themself a brother but really needs saved by the evidence of their sin and they are still alive, but if someone who calls themself a brother and rejects everything about Christ while claiming to be a brother and they die they are not to pray for them. By the way praying for the dead is still alive and well and wrong. This way we can know the sin because it is what John has been writing about in the letter.
Both the one with sin not unto death and the one with sin unto death are both lost. They were calling themselves brothers and seen as brothers because of the confusion in the Gnostic's teachings. One thing that caught my attention while studying this was the word "life". In just about every case the word related to eternal life unless there is some modifier to make it clear it is speaking of earthly life. In this case it is speaking of eternal life.

 

[canadyjd]

I have to admit that I am suprised and saddened that, at this point, more than 75% of those Christians responding to this poll would support the execution of a fellow believer in Jesus Christ knowing that God was using them to further the cause of Christ in the world.:tear:

May God have mercy on us all.

peace to youraying:

 

[freeatlast]

I have to admit that I am suprised and saddened that, at this point, more than 75% of those Christians responding to this poll would support the execution of a fellow believer in Jesus Christ knowing that God was using them to further the cause of Christ in the world.:tear:

May God have mercy on us all.

peace to youraying:

What is saddening is for believers trying to play God and circumvent His commands. :tear: He commands the death penalty and does not say unless they are sharing the gospel. God can circumvent His word but not us. If He wants one of them spared don't you think He has the power to do it?

 

[Iconoclast]

I have to admit that I am suprised and saddened that, at this point, more than 75% of those Christians responding to this poll would support the execution of a fellow believer in Jesus Christ knowing that God was using them to further the cause of Christ in the world.:tear:

May God have mercy on us all.

peace to youraying:

The murderer shall surely be put to death.

 

[kyredneck]

.....God can circumvent His word but not us....

Agree!

If He wants one of them spared don't you think He has the power to do it?

Agree!

 

[canadyjd]

The murderer shall surely be put to death.

Really? Paul was a murderer by his own testimony and yet God did not "surely put to death" Paul for those murders. God used him to further the name of Jesus Christ in the world.

And Jesus commanded us to follow His example of mercy with perfect patience which His demonstrated with Paul.

peace to youraying:

 

[kyredneck]

This is so off topic;
The book and this passage is dealing with Gnostics who had crept into the church and spread their false doctrine. Now John in the 5th chapter is finishing the letter and telling them to pray for these brothers. The passage is not speaking about one who is saved and one who is lost. In both cases the person is lost. However the passage is speaking of a person who claims to be saved, (Again keep in mind John was dealing with the problem of Gnosticism and they did not hold that Jesus actually had flesh and blood.) You might want to study their many false beliefs as they denied the actual living breathing Christ.


So John says if they see someone who is in sin ( that sin would be related to the Gnostics teaching which John has been dealing with) they can be prayed for, this is not a real brother but someone who calls themself a brother but really needs saved by the evidence of their sin and they are still alive, but if someone who calls themself a brother and rejects everything about Christ while claiming to be a brother and they die they are not to pray for them. By the way praying for the dead is still alive and well and wrong. This way we can know the sin because it is what John has been writing about in the letter.
Both the one with sin not unto death and the one with sin unto death are both lost. They were calling themselves brothers and seen as brothers because of the confusion in the Gnostic's teachings. One thing that caught my attention while studying this was the word "life". In just about every case the word related to eternal life unless there is some modifier to make it clear it is speaking of earthly life. In this case it is speaking of eternal life.

Mestillthinks you are reading a whoooole lot into the passage. Totally disagree.

 

[canadyjd]

What is saddening is for believers trying to play God and circumvent His commands.

I agree, so why do certain believers keep ignoring His commands to have mercy with perfect patience with the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul?

If He wants one of them spared don't you think He has the power to do it?

He wants His followers to demonstrate the same mercy with perfect patience that He showed to the murderer Paul. Why do you ignore that passage of scripture?

Go ahead, tell me how supporting the death of another Christian that is doing the work of Almighty God in the cause of Christ in the world in consistent with the command to show mercy found in I Tim. 1:16, or any number of passages that command us to love one another.

peace to youraying:

 

[matt wade]

freeatlast...I'm wondering if you would baptize someone on death row, if they became a Christian while there? Would it be ok for them to partake in the Lord's Supper?

 

[freeatlast]

I agree, so why do certain believers keep ignoring His commands to have mercy with perfect patience with the worst of sinners, even murderers like Paul? He wants His followers to demonstrate the same mercy with perfect patience that He showed to the murderer Paul. Why do you ignore that passage of scripture?

Go ahead, tell me how supporting the death of another Christian that is doing the work of Almighty God in the cause of Christ in the world in consistent with the command to show mercy found in I Tim. 1:16, or any number of passages that command us to love one another.

peace to youraying:

The death penalty is doing His work.

 

[canadyjd]

The death penalty is doing His work.

You're wrong, again. The death penalty is not the work of the cause of Christ in the world that His followers are suppose to be supporting.

Luke 9:54 "And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, 'Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them!?' (55) But He turned and rebuked them and said, 'You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; (56) for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.'"

I don't believe you understand what "kind of spirit you are of".

Col. 3:12 "And so, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience...(14) And beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity."

As you brought to our attention earlier, to support the death penalty is to stand side by side with the world... with radical Muslims, atheists, and Communists.

We are called by our Lord to be of a different spirit than the rest of the world.

peace to youraying:

 

[Crabtownboy]

The murderer shall surely be put to death.

The execution of an innocent person is murder. So from your statement above should those state officials who carried out the execution of a person later proven innocent be put to death? Should the judge and jury be punished?

 

[freeatlast]

You're wrong, again. The death penalty is not the work of the cause of Christ in the world that His followers are suppose to be supporting.

Luke 9:54 "And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, 'Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them!?' (55) But He turned and rebuked them and said, 'You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; (56) for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.'"

I don't believe you understand what "kind of spirit you are of".

Col. 3:12 "And so, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience...(14) And beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity."

As you brought to our attention earlier, to support the death penalty is to stand side by side with the world... with radical Muslims, atheists, and Communists.

We are called by our Lord to be of a different spirit than the rest of the world.

peace to youraying:

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

[freeatlast]

The execution of an innocent person is murder. So from your statement above should those state officials who carried out the execution of a person later proven innocent be put to death? Should the judge and jury be punished?

No because it is not murder. They are acting on the authority of the people who find the person guilty under the conditions and terms of the laws of the land based on evidence presented at trial. Secondly almost all death convictions today are 100% proven that the person is guilty otherwise the person gets life so any claim that someone stands against the death penalty because of wrongful sentencing is a sham.
It would only be murder if someone knowingly gave false testimony or information and in that case the one who gave it should be held as a murderer and put to death. The death penalty is called for by the Lord and has never been rescinded even for a believer.


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[Crabtownboy]

No because it is not murder. They are acting on the authority of the people who find the person guilty under the conditions and terms of the laws of the land based on evidence presented at trial.

Then the SS and Gestapo following Hitler's orders, the henchmen following Saddam's orders, the Roman soldiers killing of the innocents etc. were not guilty of murder. They were just following orders of those in authority.

That was found not to be a valid defense in the Nuremberg Trials.

Likewise those murdered in the killing fields of Cambodia were not murder, using your logic as, again, those folk were only following orders of those in authority.

When those in authority are wrong then everybody is wrong who follows those orders.

Secondly almost all death convictions today are 100% proven that the person is guilty otherwise the person gets life so any claim that someone stands against the death penalty because of wrongful sentencing is a sham.

The 100% proven is your opinion.

It would only be murder if someone knowingly gave false testimony or information and in that case the one who gave it should be held as a murderer and put to death. The death penalty is called for by the Lord and has never been rescinded even for a believer.

And we have no real idea of how often that happens.

Are you as concerned about the commands of God about loving and taking care of others as you are of killing others?

Why did Jesus violate God's command by not having the woman taken in adultery stoned to death?

Leviticus 20:10
“‘If a man commits adultery with another man’s wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress are to be put to death.

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[freeatlast]

Then the SS and Gestapo following Hitler's orders, the henchmen following Saddam's orders, the Roman soldiers killing of the innocents etc. were not guilty of murder. They were just following orders of those in authority.

That was found not to be a valid defense in the Nuremberg Trials.

Likewise those murdered in the killing fields of Cambodia were not murder, using your logic as, again, those folk were only following orders of those in authority.

When those in authority are wrong then everybody is wrong who follows those orders.





The 100% proven is your opinion.






And we have no real idea of how often that happens.

Are you as concerned about the commands of God about loving and taking care of others as you are of killing others?

Why did Jesus violate God's command by not having the woman taken in adultery stoned to death?

You are trying to change the subject. This is about God's call for the death penalty and if we are going to obey or rebel.

 

[Crabtownboy]

You are trying to change the subject. This is about God's call for the death penalty and if we are going to obey or rebel.

No, my friend. I am not changing the subject. You are not following through on some of your opinions to their logical conclusion.

Is not life without parole a form of execution?

 

[webdog]

No, my friend. I am not changing the subject. You are not following through on some of your opinions to their logical conclusion.

Is not life without parole a form of execution?

...then you share the same dilemma if the person is found to be innocent after the fact based on your "logical conclusion". There is no perfect human system and there will always be those imprisoned and executed who are innocent. We don't throw out the baby with the bath water, though.

 

[webdog]

You're wrong, again. The death penalty is not the work of the cause of Christ in the world that His followers are suppose to be supporting.

Luke 9:54 "And when His disciples James and John saw this, they said, 'Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them!?' (55) But He turned and rebuked them and said, 'You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; (56) for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them.'"

I don't believe you understand what "kind of spirit you are of".

Col. 3:12 "And so, as those who have been chosen of God, holy and beloved, put on a heart of compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience...(14) And beyond all these things put on love, which is the perfect bond of unity."

As you brought to our attention earlier, to support the death penalty is to stand side by side with the world... with radical Muslims, atheists, and Communists.

We are called by our Lord to be of a different spirit than the rest of the world.

peace to youraying:

I cannot believe you are being serious. Supporting the death penalty is siding with the world?!? Such nonsense is why the world views Christians as wacky.

 

[Iconoclast]

Really? Paul was a murderer by his own testimony and yet God did not "surely put to death" Paul for those murders. God used him to further the name of Jesus Christ in the world.

And Jesus commanded us to follow His example of mercy with perfect patience which His demonstrated with Paul.

peace to youraying:

There are several areas where your ideas depart from God's word.

1] You have God failing to plan how to spread the gospel...so he has to rely on a convicted murderer to spread the gospel.

Because all sin is forgiven by God for the believer...following your thought...
then all criminals who commit crime should be released as soon as the are saved..so they can do missionary service then.

2] Paul acted within the law at that time...it was not like he was the boston strangler. A police officer who shoots a criminal is not a murderer.

3] God does not contradict His own word,and needs no help from us to help Him correct what he has commanded.