death penalty?

For those that wish to disregard Gen 9:6, it is on you prove that the covenent God made with Noah has been set aside. To do this all you have to do is show when a worldwide flood has destroyed the entire Earth after Noah's flood. I see a rainbow every time it rains - which is the sign that God gave to remember the covenant he made with Noah. So, it is on you to disprove it. Until then the covenent stands and so does the death penalty for murder.

 

We don't have to guess what Jesus was trying to say, he made it very plain;

Matthew 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.

The NT Church and Christ is all about forgiveness not comdemnation. Then he gave us this piece of advice which fits the stonning of the woman;

Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged.
2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again.
3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye?
4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye?
5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye.

He begins by telling us to stop judging one another. We are so busy seeing the sin's of others that we fail to see our own sin. So Jesus said, look here, anybody here that doesn't have any sin's of their own step right up and toss the first rock. I'll even give you a good rock.

Now there was only one person there who fit this bill but did you notice he didn't throw any stones? I'm not saying the law was abolished but I somehow believe we never understood the full meaning of the law. Jesus didn't say I'll give you a new law, he explained to us the one that existed.

 

Deuteronomy 6:8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes.
9 And thou shalt write them upon the posts of thy house, and on thy gates.

Please post a picture of your gate with the comandments written there on.

 

I don't have to. God's covenant with Noah was before the law and still stands today. If you wish to deny it, then the impetus is on you to prove it.

 

I showed you God's covenant with Moses. Are you impying we keep the earlier covenants but disgard the later? What I'm saying is if you don't keep one then you might as well not keep any, sin is sin.

 

Amen for your last post LeBuick. you took the words out of my mouth - let me try to expand a little.

like LeBuick said - keep the earlier but disregard the latter covenant? the covenant with moses is a lot stronger then that with noah - although they are on the same level (hope that makes sense?)

if you want to use Genesis 9:6 to support the death penalty - that covenant with noah.

then I will use exodus 20 (ten commandments) - law of moses (since you say that the death penalty in Gen. 9:6 is a law) - the covenant with moses i'll say - for us to absolutely remember the sabbath and to keep it holy.

have you kept the sabbath holy? have you remembered it? gosh - its one day in seven and God made you and everything around you - is it really that hard to devote a whole day alone with God?

the law was once written in stone - it is now written on our hearts
(2 corinthians 3:something... 6?)

i liked what was previous said... he who is without sin - may flip the switch... may inject with the needle... etc.
---

God bless

 

It has been God who has kept Noah's covenant as evidenced by the fact that he has not destroyed the Earth by a worldwide flood since Noah's flood. OTOH, Paul writes that the law was our schoolmaster to bring us to Christ. But now that we are in Christ, we are no longer under the schoolmaster.

 

I vote yes.

 

Good points guys, God has kept his end of the deal but in the case of Noah, the covenant is really one sided. God's. And he has kept it but not destroying the "world" by flood. Now preach that sermon in New Orleans.

 

Here is one I found.

Views of the early Christian Movements:

During the first few centuries after Jesus' execution, Christians were instructed to not participate in the execution of a criminal, to not attend public executions, and even to not lay a charge against a person if it might possibly eventually result in their execution. 1
Clement of Rome, Justine Martyr and other Christian writers who discussed capital punishment during the first three centuries after Jesus' execution were absolutely opposed to it.
One example is Lactantius (260 to 330 CE) who is primarily known for his books "Introduction to True Religion" and "The Divine Institutes." He wrote in The Divine Institutes, Book 6, Chapter 20:
"When God forbids us to kill, he not only prohibits the violence that is condemned by public laws, but he also forbids the violence that is deemed lawful by men. Thus it is not lawful for a just man to engage in warfare, since his warfare is justice itself. Nor is it [lawful] to accuse anyone of a capital offense. It makes no difference whether you put a man to death by word, or by the sword. It is the act of putting to death itself which is prohibited. Therefore, regarding this precept of God there should be no exception at all. Rather it is always unlawful to put to death a man, whom God willed to be a sacred creature."
This rigid opposition to the death penalty during the first few centuries of the Christian movement appears to have been motivated by…..

http://www.religioustolerance.org/executi.htm

Do you find it strange that Mr. Charles insinuates that Lactantius supported the death penalty, when Lactantius's writings indicate he was against it?

Other than that, I don't know that what you quoted was much different from what I said earlier. When the church became the offical religion of the State of Rome, the support for the death penalty grew, especially as a way to weed out heretics and other undesireables.

Looking back, however, I wince at my words to you about being "ignorant" of Christian history. I understand there are a lot of views out there and this issue has never had uniformed support for either position. My apology to you for my choice of words.

peace to youraying:

 

Marcia, you know how much I appreciate your opinion in most matters. However, we are going to disagree on this one, that much is sure.

I am hesitant to spend a lot of time proving the obvious, when you have simply dismissed out of hand what I have written about this issue earlier. Please don't think I am being rude, because that is not my intention.

peace to youraying:

 

I'm sorry you feel that way. I haven't dismissed anything out of hand - I just disagreed.

Also, I just asked a simple question about something you posted. You said that scripture tells us that men don't have the wisdom to implement the death penalty and I asked where does it say this. I don't see what the problem is with me asking that question.

 

Governments put people to death. We must submit to authority, but should Christians be in favour or vote for that which goes against ones views or beliefs?

Sometimes I think Christians spend too much time ( thoughts ) in the world and not enough in heaven. We are to set our minds above and not down here on earth.

Christ said 'Forgive them Father'.

Miss that then you miss Christianity. Tell me, for crucifying the One and Only Son of God, what should be the punishment? Yet Christ said forgive them!

The only argument you can put forward is about knowing what we do.

That is an interesting point.

 

Sorry, double post?

David

 

Several points that are getting overlooked.

1. The church is not given the responsibility to pursue capital punishment, nor are Christians, nor are unbelievers. It is the responsibility of government as government. Vigilante justice is murder.

2. Gen 9:6 is pre-law, and is based on eternal truth. Someone tried to ask where the commandments on the door post were. That is totally irrelevant. It fails to note the reality that Deut is the Law, which began in Exod 20. Gen 9:6 is pre-Law, which dates centuries before the Law.

3. Gen 9:6 and capital punishment is based on the fact that man is in God’s image. We can do away with the death penalty for murder as soon as man is no longer in God’s image.

4. The NT teaching on grace and forgiveness in no way conflicts with the biblical teaching on justice and punishment. A parent can forgive his teenager for blowing curfew by two hours. The parent can also (and should) enforce a punishment such as grounding. These two things do not conflict in Scripture. They only conflict in some people’s minds.

5. It is totally absurd to say that we can put someone in jail in the name of forgiveness and grace but not put them to death. That makes no sense, unless you have a radical redefinition of forgiveness and grace.

In the end, capital punishment is a very severe punishment that must be used, but only when there is no doubt about the guilt of the party. God says capital punishment honors his image and who are we to disagree??/ Unless you think you know more than God. In which case, may God have mercy on your soul.

 

The 'sweet by and by' is going to be wonderful, but we have to live in the 'here and now'...

 

Actually I think it is very important, it effects the Church.

You state the obvious, next you will say we are all sinners.