death penalty?

Not ambiguous at all, but some wish to make it so

 

I don't know of any free passes that have happened in countries where there is not the death penalty. In fact it would be much easier to show how America has a much higher crime rate than quite a number of countries that do not have the death penalty.

What if you were an innocent victim of the judicial system. The reason I ask is that I have a friend who does represent people on death row. We used ot have some discussions about the death penalty until he began to tell me some of his experiences of some not having a fair trial. I asked him if there was ever a time when he was sure that the person had not committed the crime. He told me twice. At the time he had been a lawyer for about five years.

We know for a fact that innocent people have been executed in the past. How would like being one of those or if that were your mom or dad and one of them were wrongfully exectuted.

 

retracted statement.

 

In the case of my foster brother shooting the lady for 50 dollars, he admitted to it. Mrs Winslow died that same hour she was shot.

Joe?? He has been serving time for 25 years since that date.

The girl who shot my cousin a couple weeks ago admitted to shooting her and is out on bond.

Amber was unarmed and six months pregnant.

Wonder what kind of bleeding heart liberal will think of the sanctity of life and not of the pain that this girl has caused my family?

What kind of message are we sending to future killers when they see killers living the life of reilly behind bars? Prisoners are allowed to rent videos, order pizza and other delivery food from fast food restaraunts, some even have access to computer and internet. What kind of punishment is that?

Don't believe me? Try watching 'Lockup' on MSNBC.

 

Those must be minimum prisons.

All of the medium and maximum prisons I am acquainted with where convicted murderers are kept enjoy none of the priviliges you mentioned.

I am for the death penalty. Just wanted to refute the prison conditions you noted. They are wrong, in the prisons where I have been inside, via a prison ministry.

The 30+ prisoners I have contact with, on a regular basis, have none of those privileges and they did not murder anyone...

 

I was involved with prison ministry on the east coast back in the late 80's. One of the prisons I ministered in was Lorton Correctional Facility in Lorton, Va. They allowed much of what I mentioned.

Also, if you watch 'Lockup' on MSNBC (check times in your area), you will see those on death row in many prisons theh feature do in fact have those luxuries. They are let out of their cells only one hour a day to shower and excercise, but in their cells, they do have pizza's delivered, rented videos, and other luxuries.

Computer and Internet is not allowed in the cells, but it is allowed during their one hour under close supervision.

 

Yeah, life in a small cell 23 hours a day, with an open commode and overcrowding is living in the lap of luxury!

 

I have looked at the MSNBC website and have done a search concerning death row inmates. I can find nothing to substantiated your claims about death row inmates having the privileges you mention. Please provide a source for your information.

 

We are, but how about all those others? But I am for the State and the church being separate.

 

Try watching the program rather than reading the website. Linda and I both have seen the show on many occasions, and while not all maximum prisons hold to the same rules governing the things inmates can have, several are allowed amenities based on behavior and position.

 

Cells are small, but that does not keep them from renting videos or ordering fast food.

 

Not to challenge you, but, do you, or any of your friends, have some statistics to show the ratio of those innocent but executed versus those who were truly guilty and executed ?

That is why there is a long drawn out system of appeals, I think. To provide those sentenced to death the opportunity to be heard by higher courts, and the evidence against them reviewed, and the sentence commuted or overturned if needed.

On the investigative level, I think that to avoid execution of innocent persons, if it is proven during appeals, or if it turns out after the fact of execution, that the convict was innocent, then repercussions ought to be felt all the way down to the investigating officer and all the way up to the prosecution.

Fire them, deny them retirement benefits, strip them of all honors, and then send them to jail: FOR LIFE without the possibility of parole.

That ought to stop fabrication of evidence, or personal motives, or sloppy detective work.

 

Consider this passage from Luke when the Samaritians refused to receive Jesus.

Luke 9: 54-56 "And when His desciples James and John saw this, they said, 'Lord, do You want us to command fire to come down from heaven and consume them? (55) But He turned and rebuked them and said, "You do not know what kind of spirit you are of; (56) for the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them".

The desciples of Jesus are not to destroy men's lives, but save them. That is the "spirit" (attitude?) that we are to have.

peace to youraying:

 

Just a reminder for you 'pro-murderers'.


The death penalty is for governments to mete out. We as Christians ought to seek the salvation of the condemned.
My question for all you "bleeding heart liberals".

How often on a monthly basis are YOU taking the Gospel to them in prison?

Mt 25:31
¶ When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
Mt 25:32
And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
Mt 25:33
And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
Mt 25:34
Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
Mt 25:35
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
Mt 25:36
Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
Mt 25:37
Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
Mt 25:38
When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
Mt 25:39
Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
Mt 25:40
And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
Mt 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mt 25:42
For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
Mt 25:43
I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
Mt 25:44
Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
Mt 25:45
Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
Mt 25:46
And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

 

I must be both!

I am pro-capital punishment, but I do not mete out the death sentence.

I also have a monthly prison ministry.

 

You ARE confused aren't you???!!!!:thumbs: (Joking)

What follows is not Joke.

Unfortunately, I cannot sit on a jury or I would put my mouth where my convictions are. Yet God in His mercy has allowed me, a former felon, to have both a jail and a prison ministry.

See, I HAVE been on the inside looking out and I STILL stand for the ultimate penalty for the ultimate crime against mankind.

And Yes, A THOUSAND TIMES YES! Inmates do have it easy on the inside.
They have absolutely no responsibilities. Their food is cooked for them, then someone else cleans the dishes. Someone else does their laundry, pays the utilities, and the rent. Someone else pays the cable bill, builds their rec centers, their ball fields and their running track. Someone else builds their libraries, and pays their Attorney fees. Someone elsepays for their education if they want one and then someone else pays them a small wage if they want some kind of work on the inside. So you see, they PAY FOR NOTHING, NOT EVEN THEIR CRIME.

That is unless you call a fully funded paid vacation a payment for their crime.

Give me a break. Some of you folks ain't using your head for what it was given you for.

 

Rom 13:1 Every person is to be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God.
Rom 13:2 Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves.
Rom 13:3 For rulers are not a cause of fear for good behavior, but for evil. Do you want to have no fear of authority? Do what is good and you will have praise from the same;
Rom 13:4 for it is a minister of God to you for good. But if you do what is evil, be afraid; for it does not bear the sword for nothing; for it is a minister of God, an avenger who brings wrath on the one who practices evil.
Rom 13:5 Therefore it is necessary to be in subjection, not only because of wrath, but also for conscience' sake.


in Him;
-c-

 

Do prisoners have it easy? Jim, you are undoubtedly correct, in some jurisdictions. There are others were life inside the walls is total hell on earth. When I lived outside of Sugar Land, TX, the prison farm there had the prisoners working the farm to grow their own food, put them on highway cleaning detail, and other work. It was not a retirement community. Texas had such overcrowding that they had prisoner living in tents. I have yet to see a golf course at a prison. Even at the "good" prisons, taking a persons freedom is a high price for them to pay, taken care of or not.

One thing this country needs to do is to stop imprisoning people for things like possession of small amounts of marijuana. That would clear lots of court dockets and make more space in jails. The US incarcerates a much larger percentage of its population than most other countries. Something is horribly broken here.

Is the death penalty a deterrent? I don't think so. Texas executes so often that if it were, you'd think there would be little to no murder in that state. Sadly, it isn't true. Murders are typically crimes of passion. The perpetrator doesn't stop to think, "Hmmm...if I kill, I might be executed."

A civilized society must come up with a better way.

 

Well, I think we are just going to disagree. I don't think the perfect patience means that we are to abrogate the death penalty from Gen 9.6 or implied in Rom 13, or even in the preceding verses of 1 Tim 1, as I pointed out.

But Paul was not a convicted murderer. He participated in the executions under Jewish law, apparently, and even though he was killing believers, it was not murder in the eyes of the law or he would have been imprisoned.

How can we apply this passage if it pertains to convicted murderers? You believe it means to not execute them, but then what do we do with Gen 9.6 and the other passages I mentioned? I see no conflict in witnessing to prisoners and supporting the death penalty. No one is going to be executed before he is saved, if God wants him saved.

In fact, I believe it is against the sanctity of life to be opposed to the death penalty, according to the Lord's statement in Gen 9.6.