Debate comments…

[Baptist Believer]

The biggest spread of manure in this forum is whenever you show up……ignore…..you…..priceless.

Think for yourself. Do some real fact checking instead of polluting your mind with conspiracy theories.

 

[Baptist Believer]

That's why I am in favor of returning to them. My goal is not "effective" ruling by the federal government. My goal is very little ruling by the federal government.

"Every man a king?"

 

[KenH]

"Every man a king?"

No.

The most powerful and influential level of government should be local government; the next one and weaker than local government should be state government, the next one and weaker than state government should be federal government. The federal government should handle relations with other countries' governments and help resolve disputes between state governments, and very little else.

 

[Baptist Believer]

The most powerful and influential level of government should be local government..

I guess you had a great time in Middle School (aka, Jr. High School) if you think that local officials should hold the most power. Potential petty tyrants abound. They are only held in check by more powerful forces above them.

...the next one and weaker than local government should be state government...

If state government has no regulatory power over local tyrants, what does it do other than support the local dictatorships?

...the next one and weaker than state government should be federal government. The federal government should handle relations with other countries' governments...

On what basis? How can a federal government handle relations with foreign governments when it has no standing with the local tyrants and state governments?

...and help resolve disputes between state governments, and very little else.

If the federal government is weaker than state governments, how can they resolve disputes if a state won't be bound by the authority of the federal government or by rules of mediation?

And what if New Mexico and Arizona has a dispute with Texas that they don't want to resolve and decides to make a deal with Mexico to help invade and return Texas to Mexico? In your system, many other states wouldn't want to deal with the trouble of defending Texas, so the federal government would have difficulty raising an army to fight off an invasion.

The system you describe sounds like a nightmare.

 

[KenH]

The system you describe sounds like a nightmare.

A federal government that now reaches into every nook and cranny of every American's life and also much of the world IS a nightmare.

 

[KenH]

I guess you had a great time in Middle School (aka, Jr. High School) if you think that local officials should hold the most power. Potential petty tyrants abound. They are only held in check by more powerful forces above them.


If state government has no regulatory power over local tyrants, what does it do other than support the local dictatorships?


On what basis? How can a federal government handle relations with foreign governments when it has no standing with the local tyrants and state governments?


If the federal government is weaker than state governments, how can they resolve disputes if a state won't be bound by the authority of the federal government or by rules of mediation?

And what if New Mexico and Arizona has a dispute with Texas that they don't want to resolve and decides to make a deal with Mexico to help invade and return Texas to Mexico? In your system, many other states wouldn't want to deal with the trouble of defending Texas, so the federal government would have difficulty raising an army to fight off an invasion.

The system you describe sounds like a nightmare.

Your whole post is a load of nonsense.

Sounds like you are saying that unless the federal government has dictatorial power over state government, then the federal government has no power at all.

Sounds like you are saying that unless state government has dictatorial power over local government, then state government has no power at all.

Sounds like you are saying that local government, the one closest to the people, whose rulers are much more accessible to the people than on any other level of government, must have dictatorial power or it has no power at all and that the people have no recourse.

 

[canadyjd]

It is spin, but he is probably also hearing that Trump polled worse than he did among independents among early polls. Those who are not MAGA are quite familiar with Trumps lies over the years and he tripled down on the dishonesty. That only hardens independents against him because it shows he has learned nothing since 2020 and also thinks that voters are fools.

You have repeatedly claimed DT repeatedly lied during the debate. Please name the top ten lies DT told during the debate.

peace to you

 

[KenH]

Please name the top ten lies DT told during the debate.

Here are several by both:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/28/poli...n-presidential-debate-trump-biden-dale-digvid

 

[canadyjd]

Here are several by both:

https://www.cnn.com/2024/06/28/poli...n-presidential-debate-trump-biden-dale-digvid

Thanks for the info.

I’ll respond to one they claimed was a lie. DT said some states allow for the killing of babies after birth. That is true, not a lie. I think the “fact checker” called it “total fiction”.

DT gave the example of a Governor that was asked what to do if a baby was born alive during an abortion. The Gov stated they would set the baby aside and let the mother decide with the doctor whether to kill that baby.

Many states have no protections for babies born alive after a botched abortion. That is true. In their minds, it’s not true because they don’t consider the baby to be a baby, it’s a “fetus”. That’s why they say it’s a lie.

DT hyped and exaggerated his record, no doubt. All politicians do that.

I do not trust CNN to tell the truth about anything concerning DT. For them to say “he said this but it isn’t true””…, means absolutely nothing to me.

For Biden, they gave the truth to compare to what he said. For DT, they simply stated, almost every time, he said “this” but it is not true.

peace to you

 

[KenH]

I do not trust CNN to tell the truth about anything concerning DT. For them to say “he said this but it isn’t true””…, means absolutely nothing to me.

I don't trust Fox News, CNN, MSNBC or any other media outlets to tell the facts straight on political matters. All of them offer opinions when it comes to politics. So I do pretty much trust media outlets to offer political opinions from those who contribute content on air or online or in newspapers or magazines.

 

[777]

I think Biden was fed that debunked "good people on both sides" thing - really odd that Snopes, out of the blue, debunked it late last week while Biden was holed up prepping for that debate.

The left thinks Trump is a liar because he didn't think that last election was on the up and up. I hope Biden stays in, but that's doubtful no matter what they're claiming now. He would have to run on his record, even against orange man and he'd surely lose.

Trump's lies would be worse because he is somewhat sane, thereby accountable. But, you know, if Trump had acted like Biden did in that debate, there's no way I'd ever vote for him. Who's the cultist here?

 

[canadyjd]

I don't trust Fox News, CNN, MSNBC or any other media outlets to tell the facts straight on political matters. All of them offer opinions when it comes to politics. So I do pretty much trust media outlets to offer political opinions from those who contribute content on air or online or in newspapers or magazines.

Fair point

peace to you

 

[Deacon]

I didn’t watch very long but was disturbed at President Biden’s boast that he did not have any troops dying anywhere during his presidency.

Rob

 

[atpollard]

Enforcement of the rule of law is a "lefty mistake?" Got it.

I am no fan of the MAGA movement, but where was this hunger for “Enforcement of the rule of law” when sitting President Clinton committed perjury while giving testimony in court, under oath, to avoid consequences of his past sexual harassment.

 

[JonC]

Anybody watch the debate between DT and Biden?

Did it change your mind?

Were you surprise by either man?

Who won?

Will it make an impact on the election?

peace to you

I watched it....ironically in Puerto Rico (they can't vote).

It was sad to see Biden that way, but I was not shocked.

I am happily surprised that Trump didn't take the bait when Biden called him a "whiner". Trump remained professional, even pointing out the golf part of the debate was "childish".

I also watched Trumps rally afterwards.


And I talked with citizens of Puerto Rico who complained they lacked a voice. One explained that political parties don't mean much to them (their governor and senator ran on the same ticket...one a Democrat and the other a republican). He believed that if allowed Puerto Rico would vote Republican because most of the Island is very conservative (he said Floridal was very liberal politically in comparison).


Amyway......no surprise in the debate. Biden simply proved to be in a state we all feared at his age.

Jill Biden should be ashamed for letting this go on.

 

[JonC]

Gerontocracy? Rule by the Oldest?

Much rather have experience folks than young, inexperienced folks

peace to you

I don't know.....Trump only has 4 years experience. Biden has....what....122 or so years?

 

[canadyjd]

I watched it....ironically in Puerto Rico (they can't vote).

It was sad to see Biden that way, but I was not shocked.

I am happily surprised that Trump didn't take the bait when Biden called him a "whiner". Trump remained professional, even pointing out the golf part of the debate was "childish".

I also watched Trumps rally afterwards.


And I talked with citizens of Puerto Rico who complained they lacked a voice. One explained that political parties don't mean much to them (their governor and senator ran on the same ticket...one a Democrat and the other a republican). He believed that if allowed Puerto Rico would vote Republican because most of the Island is very conservative (he said Floridal was very liberal politically in comparison).


Amyway......no surprise in the debate. Biden simply proved to be in a state we all feared at his age.

Jill Biden should be ashamed for letting this go on.

Interesting. If I remember correctly, the folks of Puerto Rico had a referendum to move toward statehood but voted it down. It’s been a while ago… 25 years?

Good insight. Thanks for the comments

peace to you

 

[JonC]

Interesting. If I remember correctly, the folks of Puerto Rico had a referendum to move toward statehood but voted it down. It’s been a while ago… 25 years?

Good insight. Thanks for the comments

peace to you

If it were me, I would keep it as is. They pay social security but not a federal income tax.

But it gets weird when we look at the US Constitution and Puerto Rico.

They have fundamental rights, but are not governed completely by the US Constitution.


Puerto Rico has to follow the US Constitution in many ways, but the citizens of Puerto Rico (US Citizens) are not guaranteed the rights outlined in the US Constitution.

For example - the SCOTUS has decided that the right of a jury trial doesn't apply to Puerto Rico.

When it suits the Federal Government any federal law is considered fundamental (immigration, paying social security and medicate, etc) and applied.

 

[OnlyaSinner]

Yes.


No.


Trump's ability to lie as if it was the most natural thing in the world is always startling to me. Using that as a propaganda technique ("flood the zone with [manure]" as Steve Bannon would say) is very effective since those who are tethered to truth are at a massive disadvantage in that type of format.

Since the "moderators" didn't moderate (they simply read questions and kept time), there was no pushback against either candidate for when they misstated facts. It is nearly a hopeless task fact-checking Trump live, but they should have made an effort. And they should have called out Biden on at least two occasions when he misstated some things about Trump. But CNN abrogated their responsibilities as journalists, and we are all poorer for it.

I was also surprised that Biden got caught trying to answer Trump's lies point-by-point (an impossible task within the format) and allowed himself to get flustered and on the defensive. Biden's cold and stuttering got the better of him. He has never been a great communicator, but he was particularly bad last night.


No one. Biden looked frail and Trump demonstrated he was completely shameless with his blatant and obvious lies. He has a very low view of the public.


I doubt it. Current Trump supporters are either okay with his lies or they don't realize he is lying and are not interested in fact-checking him. Biden supporters are not going to vote for Trump since they know what is in Project 2025. The undecided voters (a relatively small number of people) will likely know enough about Trump to know he is boldly lying to them and will chose the frail-looking man who has a good team of people around him to govern.

Trump is a convicted felon 34 times over and owes hundreds of millions of dollars in damages and fines. If Republicans make him their candidate, they will likely lose.

Of course, I can be wrong, and it's a long way to the election.

I would substitute "able", in the sense of being nowhere near Biden's feebleness, for "good", as I'm not ready to endorse what has occurred in the current administration. A car purring down the highway at 70 is preferable to one trying to run on 2 cylinders, but it needs to be driving in the right direction. Among other issues, immigration policy was a disaster and the withdrawal from Afghanistan was as inept as anything I've seen. It's true that Biden had little or no direct involvement with the latter, but "The Buck Stops Here!"

As others have stated, it's very sad when the major political parties can't do better in choosing their flagbearers.

 

[Baptist Believer]

Sounds like you are saying that unless the federal government has dictatorial power over state government, then the federal government has no power at all.

Nope not dictatorial power. We currently have a representative constitutional government led by the rule of law. But remember, every government enforces the law (or at least the will of the monarch) by force (Romans 13:4).

Sounds like you are saying that unless state government has dictatorial power over local government, then state government has no power at all.

Still no. See response above.

Sounds like you are saying that local government, the one closest to the people, whose rulers are much more accessible to the people than on any other level of government, must have dictatorial power or it has no power at all and that the people have no recourse.

Again, no. See responses above.