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Decertifying Global Warming Skeptics

hillclimber1

Active Member
Site Supporter
Baptist in Richmond said:
So, are we to believe that your belief that this is "impossible" is based solely upon your "simple common sense," and not anything scientific?
What are your scientific credentials to make such an absolute pronouncement?

Getting curious,
BiR

My opinions are mine and I share them on here. I don't have to have any scientific background, in fact I truly believe that today a scientist is at odds with truth. And to see the amazing number of them climbing on THIS gravy train is adding fuel to the fire of distrust. You know there isn't anywhere near enough real evidence to state that GW is attributable to man. Or are you already on board the train?
 

hillclimber1

Active Member
Site Supporter
Terry_Herrington said:
And, what if you are wrong in your theology, and there is no rapture?

I enjoy the HOPE of the rapture in my life, but absolutely don't depend upon it. If I were to depend on it I would get one of those fancy home loans in which you pay 0 or 1% interest for the first several years, freeing up mortgage money to "enjoy" life or support more missionary's, etc. Instead of a 30 year fixed.

And there will be a rapture, in case that was your point.
 

hillclimber1

Active Member
Site Supporter
You know BIR. Every time someone has an opinion contradicting yours, you start demanding their credentials as an expert. It's that thinking that you would disqualify a non-vet from an opinion on war, and a childless person on school issues. It's tiresome, boring and frankly makes me angry. You seem to be fully justified in citing pseudo scientific data in your defense of "earth v. man" and yet that's OK.

I'm done with discussions with you over this nonsense.

Regards,
hill
 

Baptist in Richmond

Active Member
hillclimber1 said:
You know BIR. Every time someone has an opinion contradicting yours, you start demanding their credentials as an expert.
I never used the word "expert," and you know that. Please stick to what I write if you are going to make an observation about me. I simply asked you why you feel that it is "impossible" that man is creating this, if it indeed exists. You have dismissed this whole thought as "impossible." When I asked you why you feel this, you said that it was a result of your common sense. Then when I asked you about your background, you make this nonsensical reply that I am demanding credentials. I didn't "demand" anything, I simply asked you a question.

It's that thinking that you would disqualify a non-vet from an opinion on war, and a childless person on school issues. It's tiresome, boring and frankly makes me angry. You seem to be fully justified in citing pseudo scientific data in your defense of "earth v. man" and yet that's OK.
Again, this is nothing that I have written. I simply asked you why you feel that it is "impossible." That is it, nothing more: I simply asked you a question. Why are you getting so defensive and attributing ideas/thoughts/comments/words that I never wrote.

I have already said that I am not sure if I buy into global warming yet, and this is quite evident in the posts that I have written thus far, both to you and to Dragoon68.

I'm done with discussions with you over this nonsense.
Did I or did I not ask you how you arrived to your conclusion that this is "impossible?" You didn't use a word that it was unlikely or improbable, you used the word "impossible." I fail to see why you felt compelled to post a response to me not once, but twice, as if you were sitting there for an hour between the posts seething in anger.

This is twice in one week that I have had a person respond to me with comments I never made. This is starting to get old......

Regards anyway,
BiR
 
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carpro

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Terry_Herrington said:
Right! We know that ALL Christians believe in the Rapture!:rolleyes:

It's Biblical. I don't know how one could not believe in it.

But that would be the subject for another forum.

Puzzling, nevertheless.:confused:
 

777

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Staying on topic might help....

psssssssst.......you're not the topic

My topic today sounds humorous but unfortunately I am serious. I am going to argue that extraterrestrials lie behind global warming. Or to speak more precisely, I will argue that a belief in extraterrestrials has paved the way, in a progression of steps, to a belief in global warming. Charting this progression of belief will be my task today.

Let me say at once that I have no desire to discourage anyone from believing in either extraterrestrials or global warming. That would be quite impossible to do. Rather, I want to discuss the history of several widely-publicized beliefs and to point to what I consider an emerging crisis in the whole enterprise of science-namely the increasingly uneasy relationship between hard science and public policy.

I have a special interest in this because of my own upbringing. I was born in the midst of World War II, and passed my formative years at the height of the Cold War. In school drills, I dutifully crawled under my desk in preparation for a nuclear attack.

It was a time of widespread fear and uncertainty, but even as a child I believed that science represented the best and greatest hope for mankind. Even to a child, the contrast was clear between the world of politics-a world of hate and danger, of irrational beliefs and fears, of mass manipulation and disgraceful blots on human history. In contrast, science held different values-international in scope, forging friendships and working relationships across national boundaries and political systems, encouraging a dispassionate habit of thought, and ultimately leading to fresh knowledge and technology that would benefit all mankind. The world might not be avery good place, but science would make it better. And it did. In my lifetime, science has largely fulfilled its promise. Science has been the great intellectual adventure of our age, and a great hope for our troubled and restless world.

But I did not expect science merely to extend lifespan, feed the hungry, cure disease, and shrink the world with jets and cell phones. I also expected science to banish the evils of human thought---prejudice and superstition, irrational beliefs and false fears. I expected science to be, in Carl Sagan's memorable phrase, "a candle in a demon haunted world." And here, I am not so pleased with the impact of science. Rather than serving as a cleansing force, science has in some instances been seduced by the more ancient lures of politics and publicity. Some of the demons that haunt our world in recent years are invented by scientists. The world has not benefited from permitting these demons to escape free.

But let's look at how it came to pass.

Cast your minds back to 1960. John F. Kennedy is president, commercial jet airplanes are just appearing, the biggest university mainframes have 12K of memory. And in Green Bank, West Virginia at the new National Radio Astronomy Observatory, a young astrophysicist named Frank Drake runs a two week project called Ozma, to search for extraterrestrial signals. A signal is received, to great excitement. It turns out to be false, but the excitement remains. In 1960, Drake organizes the first SETI conference, and came up with the now-famous Drake equation:

N=N*fp ne fl fi fc fL

Where N is the number of stars in the Milky Way galaxy; fp is the fraction with planets; ne is the number of planets per star capable of supporting life; fl is the fraction of planets where life evolves; fi is the fraction where intelligent life evolves; and fc is the fraction that communicates; and fL is the fraction of the planet's life during which the communicating civilizations live.

This serious-looking equation gave SETI an serious footing as a legitimate intellectual inquiry. The problem, of course, is that none of the terms can be known, and most cannot even be estimated. The only way to work the equation is to fill in with guesses. And guesses-just so we're clear-are merely expressions of prejudice. Nor can there be "informed guesses." If you need to state how many planets with life choose to communicate, there is simply no way to make an informed guess. It's simply prejudice.

As a result, the Drake equation can have any value from "billions and billions" to zero. An expression that can mean anything means nothing. Speaking precisely, the Drake equation is literally meaningless, and has nothing to do with science. I take the hard view that science involves the creation of testable hypotheses. The Drake equation cannot be tested and therefore SETI is not science. SETI is unquestionably a religion. Faith is defined as the firm belief in something for which there is no proof. The belief that the Koran is the word of God is a matter of faith. The belief that God created the universe in seven days is a matter of faith. The belief that there are other life forms in the universe is a matter of faith. There is not a single shred of evidence for any other life forms, and in forty years of searching, none has been discovered. There is absolutely no evidentiary reason to maintain this belief. SETI is a religion.

One way to chart the cooling of enthusiasm is to review popular works on the subject. In 1964, at the height of SETI enthusiasm, Walter Sullivan of the NY Times wrote an exciting book about life in the universe entitled WE ARE NOT ALONE. By 1995, when Paul Davis wrote a book on the same subject, he titled it ARE WE ALONE? ( Since 1981, there have in fact been four books titled ARE WE ALONE.) More recently we have seen the rise of the so-called "Rare Earth" theory which suggests that we may, in fact, be all alone. Again, there is no evidence either way.

Back in the sixties, SETI had its critics, although not among astrophysicists and astronomers. The biologists and paleontologists were harshest. George Gaylord Simpson of Harvard sneered that SETI was a "study without a subject," and it remains so to the present day.

http://www.michaelcrichton.net/speeches/speeches_quote04.html
 
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The Galatian

Active Member
BTW, even the deniers have now admitted that there is global warming. They've retreated back to "but man isn't responsible for any of it." Fortunately, the Bush administration, many evangelicals, CEOs of major corporations, etc. have accepted the obvious and are seeking a feasible way to do something about it.

The few remaining deniers are increasingly marginalized as more an more evidence comes in.
 

Pete

New Member
The Galatian said:
Fortunately, the Bush administration, many evangelicals, CEOs of major corporations, etc. have accepted the obvious and are seeking a feasible way to do something about it.

Ah, so God doesn't have the ultimate say....thanks for info....forgive me if I think He does :)
 

The Galatian

Active Member
Barbarian observes:
Fortunately, the Bush administration, many evangelicals, CEOs of major corporations, etc. have accepted the obvious and are seeking a feasible way to do something about it.

Ah, so God doesn't have the ultimate say

I'd say you were pretty mixed up, if you think that. How does the reality of global warming mean God doesn't have the ultimate say? This is such a bizarre conclusion, given the evidence, that I have to wonder if you didn't post in the wrong thread.
 

carpro

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
The Galatian said:
BTW, even the deniers have now admitted that there is global warming. They've retreated back to "but man isn't responsible for any of it." Fortunately, the Bush administration, many evangelicals, CEOs of major corporations, etc. have accepted the obvious and are seeking a feasible way to do something about it.

The few remaining deniers are increasingly marginalized as more an more evidence comes in.
Having accepted neither stance, I object to the attempts to silence the opposition.

Usually, attempts are made to silent the opposition when your own position is not solid enough to bear scrutiny, like a house built upon sand.
 
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DeeJay

New Member
carpro said:
Having accepted neither stance, I object to the attempts to silence the opposition.

Usually, attempts are made to silent the opposition when your own position is not solid enough to bear scrutiny, like a house built upon sand.

That brings us back to the point of this thread. Obviously both sides make good arguments and neither side can prove their case conclusivly.

So do we all agree that both sides of the argument should be able to have a voice in the debate? Or does somebody here think that their case is so strong that nobody should be allowed a desenting opinion?
 

JFox1

New Member
Sounds like Heidi Cullen wants to censor those who disagree with her global warming agenda. The Weather Channel is already commercialized. Now it's being politicized. Back in 2004, Heidi Cullen and The Weather Channel kept pushing The Day After Tomorrow, Hollywood's version of the dangers of global warming. :rolleyes:
 

Pete

New Member
The Galatian said:
Barbarian observes:
Fortunately, the Bush administration, many evangelicals, CEOs of major corporations, etc. have accepted the obvious and are seeking a feasible way to do something about it.

me said:
Ah, so God doesn't have the ultimate say

I'd say you were pretty mixed up, if you think that. How does the reality of global warming mean God doesn't have the ultimate say? This is such a bizarre conclusion, given the evidence, that I have to wonder if you didn't post in the wrong thread.

I don't think that, I know God does have the ultimate say :) It seems the We're all gonna fryists believe that He doesn't though. It certainly looks like "We have to do something because God can't/won't" from here.

Actually I'm even starting to almost take my quasi-pantheist-gaiaist theory slightly seriously, because it seems the story is almost preached..."Believe in the truth. Repent and turn from the evils of coal and oil, and let no person use more than a kilowatt hour a day. Then go into the world and preach the....." :smilewinkgrin:
 
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