Decisional Regeneration Take 2

[TCGreek]

#1 is what I refer to the drawing, or conviction of the Gospel. As Ecc. 3:11 points us to, the desire is built within everyone to live forever. That's not what regeneration is though. Regeneration is the new birth, born again.

As Allan has pointed out, "dead in sin" is metaphorical in nature, the same way "dead to sin" is.

Metaphoric of what? How does a person overcome that deadness to seek the Savior?

 

[webdog]

In my understanding of regeneration, the sinner's eyes are open to sins and the need for a Savior. Apart from the opening of the eyes to sin, the sinner has no sight to see them and desire the Savior to be cleansed.

Using this same logic applied to the phrase "dead to sin", a believer has to be made alive to sin, to have their eyes open to it, and a desire placed in their heart to sin. You agree with that notion?

 

[webdog]

Metaphoric of what? How does a person overcome that deadness to seek the Savior?

Dead in sin means simply separated from God due to sin. Physical death is soul separation from the body, spiritual death is soul separation from God...that's metaphoric.

Do we need to overcome that deadness TO sin in order to sin?

 

[TCGreek]

Dead in sin means simply separated from God due to sin. Physical death is soul separation from the body, spiritual death is soul separation from God.

Do we need to overcome that deadness TO sin in order to sin?

So how is the sinner able to overcome this separation and desire God?

 

[TCGreek]

Using this same logic applied to the phrase "dead to sin", a believer has to be made alive to sin, to have their eyes open to it, and a desire placed in their heart to sin. You agree with that notion?

Scripture does not support this logic.

 

[Amy.G]

In my understanding of regeneration, the sinner's eyes are open to sins and the need for a Savior. Apart from the opening of the eyes to sin, the sinner has no sight to see them and desire the Savior to be cleansed.

According Romans 1, God has given the written law to the Jews, but has also written the law on the hearts of everyone. This is our conscience, I believe. We all have the knowledge of right and wrong, even as young children. So, when you say the sinners eyes are "open to sins" what do you mean?

When you talk about the desire for the Savior, I can see where you're coming from, I think.

Even tho we know right from wrong because God has placed this knowledge in our hearts, we don't neccessarily seek the Savior.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

According Romans 1, God has given the written law to the Jews, but has also written the law on the hearts of everyone. This is our conscience, I believe. We all have the knowledge of right and wrong, even as young children. So, when you say the sinners eyes are "open to sins" what do you mean?

When you talk about the desire for the Savior, I can see where you're coming from, I think.

Even tho we know right from wrong because God has placed this knowledge in our hearts, we don't neccessarily seek the Savior.

Your right on Amy. Apparantly you understand the difference between the general revelation spoken of in Romans 1, and the special revelation, Christ Jesus, spoken of in 1 Cor which has not entered the heart of man.

And you did all that without theologians! lol

 

[webdog]

Scripture does not support this logic.

...then Scripture doesn't support the same logic in "dead in sin".

 

[webdog]

So how is the sinner able to overcome this separation and desire God?

I'll answer your question once you answer mine.

Do we need to overcome that deadness TO sin in order to sin?

 

[ReformedBaptist]

I'll answer your question once you answer mine.

Do we need to overcome that deadness TO sin in order to sin?

I am sure your question makes sense to you. Is there any way you can rephrase it possibly? It really makes no sense to me right now.

 

[webdog]

Your right on Amy. Apparantly you understand the difference between the general revelation spoken of in Romans 1, and the special revelation, Christ Jesus, spoken of in 1 Cor which has not entered the heart of man.

And you did all that without theologians! lol

If I'm not mistaken, I believe she was referring to both from Romans 1.

 

[webdog]

I am sure your question makes sense to you. Is there any way you can rephrase it possibly? It really makes no sense to me right now.

It was a response to post 41, which was a response to post 40, which was a response to...

 

[ReformedBaptist]

It was a response to post 41, which was a response to post 40, which was a response to...

Ok..I will wait for the next one. In the previous reply to Amy I was making a disctinction between general and special revelation.

 

[Jarthur001]

I'll answer your question once you answer mine.

Do we need to overcome that deadness TO sin in order to sin?

webdog,

What do you feel "dead to sin" means?

 

[webdog]

webdog,

What do you feel "dead to sin" means?

Separated from sin, from that prior life... not unable to respond to sin, like your camp states someone dead in sin is unable to respond to the Gospel.

 

[ReformedBaptist]

Separated from sin, from that prior life... not unable to respond to sin, like your camp states someone dead in sin is unable to respond to the Gospel.

So, is your logic that since a regenerate person can sin, an unregenerate person must be able in their unregenracy respond in repentance and faith to the Gospel apart from the operation of God?

 

[Jarthur001]

Separated from sin, from that prior life... not unable to respond to sin, like your camp states someone dead in sin is unable to respond to the Gospel.

Then what does dead in sin mean as it applies to the non believer?

 

[Jarthur001]

So, is your logic that since a regenerate person can sin, an unregenerate person must be able in their unregenracy respond in repentance and faith to the Gospel apart from the operation of God?

indeed. you make a good point,

In the work of regeneration, we play no active role at all. It is instead totally a work of God. We see this, in John 1 when it says Christ gave power to become children of God -- they "were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God"

Here john specifies that children of God are those who are "born ...of God" and our human will ("the will of man") does not bring about this kind of birth.

The fact that we are passive in regeneration is also evident when Scripture refers to it as being "born" or "born again" in James … 1 Peter 1:3.

We did not choose to be made physically alive and we did not choose to be born -- it is something that happened to us; similarly, these analogies in Scripture suggest that we are entirely passive in regeneration.

This sovereign work of God in regeneration was also predicted in the prophesy of Ezekiel. Through him God promised a time in the future when he would give new spiritual to his people:

A new heart I will give you, and a new spirit I will put within you; and I will take out of your flesh the heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh. And I will put my spirit within you, and cause you to walk in my statutes and be careful to observe my ordinances. (Ezek 36:26-27)

 

[webdog]

So, is your logic that since a regenerate person can sin, an unregenerate person must be able in their unregenracy respond in repentance and faith to the Gospel apart from the operation of God?

No, not at all. John 12:32 makes that quite clear. Looking back I don't see where I have given that impression that man can come to righteousness apart from God.

 

[webdog]

Then what does dead in sin mean as it applies to the non believer?

Separated from God and anything righteous...not unable to respond to God's calling.