Decisional Regeneration? What about today’s popular “alter call”

[1689Dave]

1 Peter 1:2, ". . . Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience . . . ."

Acts of the Apostles 5:32, ". . . the Holy Spirit, whom God hath given to them that obey Him. . . ."

Romans 10:16, ". . . But they have not all obeyed the gospel. . . ."

2 Thessalonians 1:8, ". . . In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: . . ."

There are two ways of reading these passages. 1. How to recognize those God saves by their works. Or 2. Assuming their works saved them. These are two different gospels.

 

[DaveXR650]

From the OP's original post. I see nothing wrong with an alter call. When they started preaching in Acts they report hard numbers of folks who were saved. So you had to press forward or do something to let the apostles know how you felt. It may have been baptism, true but you still had to report to the river.

The trouble with alter calls was that some preachers tried to manipulate audiences with music, sentimental stories about someone's mom or a dog that died etc. And it did devolve in many cases to a simplified sacrament like the Catholics have where the act of going forward became the whole thing.

I have Billy Graham's book Peace With God and it is excellent. I personally know people who were saved at his crusades and are serving the Lord going on 50 years at this point.

I have a book by Finney also and I have to admit he may not even have been an orthodox Christian.

 

[MB]

There are two ways of reading these passages. 1. How to recognize those God saves by their works. Or 2. Assuming their works saved them. These are two different gospels.

Assuming a sinner is saved with out believing or repentance is just that assumption. God does not save by ones works. Belief and repentance is not a work .Men certainly are not saved when men reject Him.
MB

 

[MB]

Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. = God must save you before you can believe.

You are mistaken Faith is the hope of Salvation. The faith that is a fruit is increased faith. Our faith is increased everytime we hear the gospel.If we were saved before faith what would stop us from not having any faith, since Salvation is permanent and cannot be lost. You have people being saved with out believing and it's impossible.
MB

 

[37818]

All infants who die before the age when they can know right from wrong, the actual age God only knows, are guaranteed to go to heaven. Just as those who are mentally damaged etc

So do you agree literally with Romans 3:23?

 

[SavedByGrace]

So do you agree literally with Romans 3:23?

Indeed. However it is important to note that a sinner is someone who actually commits sins which infants cannot

 

[37818]

Indeed. However it is important to note that a sinner is someone who actually commits sins which infants cannot

Then you, from my understanding, do not understand Genesis 2:17, Genesis 3. and Genesis 3:22. Romans 9:11 is mistranslated by virtually every translation.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Then you, from my understanding, do not understand Genesis 2:17, Genesis 3. and Genesis 3:22. Romans 9:11 is mistranslated by virtually every translation.

Are Human Beings Born Sinners?

 

[1689Dave]

From the OP's original post. I see nothing wrong with an alter call. When they started preaching in Acts they report hard numbers of folks who were saved. So you had to press forward or do something to let the apostles know how you felt. It may have been baptism, true but you still had to report to the river.

The trouble with alter calls was that some preachers tried to manipulate audiences with music, sentimental stories about someone's mom or a dog that died etc. And it did devolve in many cases to a simplified sacrament like the Catholics have where the act of going forward became the whole thing.

I have Billy Graham's book Peace With God and it is excellent. I personally know people who were saved at his crusades and are serving the Lord going on 50 years at this point.

I have a book by Finney also and I have to admit he may not even have been an orthodox Christian.

What you are missing is my point that faith alone is evidence God saved a person. The saved went forward not knowing they were already saved. And Then Billy gave them false directions on how to save themselves by making a decision. This is decisional regeneration and is not found anywhere in scripture. They were saved but horribly confused, possibly for life.

 

[1689Dave]

So do you agree literally with Romans 3:23?

Our flesh remains sinful until death. Paul lamented about the wretched man he was.

 

[1689Dave]

Indeed. However it is important to note that a sinner is someone who actually commits sins which infants cannot

What causes people to sin other than their wicked hearts? Why do infants die in the womb if not sinful? The wages of sin is death.

 

[1689Dave]

Are Human Beings Born Sinners?

“The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.” Psalm 58:3 (KJV 1900)

“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” Romans 3:10 (KJV 1900)

The wages of sin is death and babies die every day in the womb.

 

[SavedByGrace]

What causes people to sin other than their wicked hearts? Why do infants die in the womb if not sinful? The wages of sin is death.

An infant cannot commit any sin. Very simple

 

[SavedByGrace]

“The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.” Psalm 58:3 (KJV 1900)

“As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:” Romans 3:10 (KJV 1900)

The wages of sin is death and babies die every day in the womb.

Did you read the link

 

[kyredneck]

Firstly, there can be no salvation without the sinner both REPENTING and BELIEVING in the Gospel Message, as Jesus clearly says in Mark 1:15

Whoa!! Cherry picker are you? You left off a vital component of the complete 'formula' in order to be 'saved':

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

Repenting, believing, being baptized; have I left out any of the 'formula' for being 'saved'? (oh, wait a minute, seems there's also an incantation that needs to be repeated in order to become 'saved')

 

[1689Dave]

Then you, from my understanding, do not understand Genesis 2:17, Genesis 3. and Genesis 3:22. Romans 9:11 is mistranslated by virtually every translation.

Any accredited degrees in ancient Greek?

 

[1689Dave]

Did you read the link

Why do babies die in the womb? Because of Adam's imputed sin. The wages of sin is death.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Did you read the link

“The wicked are estranged from the womb: They go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.” Psalm 58:3 (KJV 1900)

This cannot be understood liteally. How many babies do you know, that are 6 months, ot even a year, that "speak lies"? They probably don't even say mum or dad at this time!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Whoa!! Cherry picker are you? You left off a vital component of the complete 'formula' in order to be 'saved':

16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that disbelieveth shall be condemned. Mk 16

Repenting, believing, being baptized; have I left out any of the 'formula' for being 'saved'? (oh, wait a minute, seems there's also an incantation that needs to be repeated in order to become 'saved')

have you seen the links at # 8? are all these reformed theologians wrong, and the moderns right???

 

[SavedByGrace]

Why do babies die in the womb? Because of Adam's imputed sin. The wages of sin is death.

what is up with you guys??? So, you are now saying, that if a woman were to miscarry, or have a still birth, it is "Because of Adam's imputed sin"??? What rubbish.