Decisional Regeneration? What about today’s popular “alter call”

[SavedByGrace]

Please tell me WHY these verses are in the Infallible Word of God?

Deuteronomy 1:39
And as for your little ones, who you said would become a prey, and your children, who today have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. And to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.

Isaiah 7:15-16
He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted.

Jonah 4:11
And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?”

Romans 9:11
though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad

 

[AustinC]

An infant cannot commit any sin. Very simple

Science proves your statement wrong.

Babies aren't as innocent as they look, according to new research out of the United Kingdom.

Sweet little infants actually learn to deceive before they can talk, says University of Portsmouth psychology department head Vasudevi Reddy in a study that challenges traditional notions of innocence while confirming many parents' suspicions about their sneaky babies.

Most psychologists have believed that children cannot really lie until about four years of age. But after dozens of interviews with parents, and years spent observing children, Dr. Reddy has determined that infants as young as seven months are quite skilled at pulling the wool over their parents' eyes.

Sneaky babies learn to lie before they learn to talk

 

[1689Dave]

Please tell me WHY these verses are in the Infallible Word of God?

Deuteronomy 1:39
And as for your little ones, who you said would become a prey, and your children, who today have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. And to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.

Isaiah 7:15-16
He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted.

Jonah 4:11
And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?”

Romans 9:11
though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad

Your mistake is in trying to compare Paul's spiritual aspects of all people with the Old Testament Law. Many kept the Law carnal-mindedly and were righteous in that sense. But they still were not saved. Once you learn this difference you might grasp the deeper meaning of the New Testament.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Science proves your statement wrong.

Babies aren't as innocent as they look, according to new research out of the United Kingdom.

Sweet little infants actually learn to deceive before they can talk, says University of Portsmouth psychology department head Vasudevi Reddy in a study that challenges traditional notions of innocence while confirming many parents' suspicions about their sneaky babies.

Most psychologists have believed that children cannot really lie until about four years of age. But after dozens of interviews with parents, and years spent observing children, Dr. Reddy has determined that infants as young as seven months are quite skilled at pulling the wool over their parents' eyes.

Sneaky babies learn to lie before they learn to talk

I am not a great believer in man-made "science"!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Your mistake is in trying to compare Paul's spiritual aspects of all people with the Old Testament Law. Many kept the Law carnal-mindedly and were righteous in that sense. But they still were not saved. Once you learn this difference you might grasp the deeper meaning of the New Testament.

There are 4 passages that I have quoted from, you have not shown WHY they all speak of a time when an infant does not know "right from wrong". WHY is this in the Bible, unless for a purpose?

 

[1689Dave]

I am not a great believer in man-made "science"!

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” Genesis 6:5 (KJV 1900)

 

[1689Dave]

There are 4 passages that I have quoted from, you have not shown WHY they all speak of a time when an infant does not know "right from wrong". WHY is this in the Bible, unless for a purpose?

As I said, you are taking two totally different audiences and combining them which nullifies all that Paul said.

 

[SavedByGrace]

“And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.” Genesis 6:5 (KJV 1900)

WHERE have I denied that the world was full of sin? I am here dealing with INFANTS who die before they know "right from wrong", as the Bible says!

 

[SavedByGrace]

As I said, you are taking two totally different audiences and combining them which nullifies all that Paul said.

still does not deal with the language used. Paul only wrote 14 Epistles, and not the whole Bible!

 

[1689Dave]

Have you read Joshua 24.15? CHOOSE this day whom you will serve?

This is not about salvation. It's about Law keeping. Most of the Jews were wicked beyond belief, even burning their children alive. Study up and see the difference.

 

[1689Dave]

WHERE have I denied that the world was full of sin? I am here dealing with INFANTS who die before they know "right from wrong", as the Bible says!

They have Adam's imputed sin.

 

[AustinC]

I am not a great believer in man-made "science"!

Brother, it confirms scripture.
Psalm 51:3-5 For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me. Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, so that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment. Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Science proves your statement wrong

"O Timothy, keep that which is committed to thy trust, avoiding profane and vain babblings, and oppositions of science falsely so called" (1 Timothy 6:20 KJV)

While on the subject of "science", did you know that it has been proven that people are not born homosexuals, as it is in their DNA, and therefore homosexuality, according to "science", is not sinful?

 

[SavedByGrace]

They have Adam's imputed sin.

what was the sin of Adam and Eve? It was cleary that they DISOBEYED what God had Commanded then, and had listened to the devil instead. They CHOSE to DISOBEY God. HOW can an infant do this?

 

[SavedByGrace]

Brother, it confirms scripture.
Psalm 51:3-5 For I know my transgressions, and my sin is ever before me. Against you, you only, have I sinned and done what is evil in your sight, so that you may be justified in your words and blameless in your judgment. Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

very simple. ALL humans are born SINFUL, but cannot be born SINNERS. For someone to be a SINNER, requires them to COMMIT an ACT of sin!

 

[37818]

An infant cannot commit any sin. Very simple

Then Roman 3:23 would be false. And you believe the mistranslation of Romans 9:11. And you do not understand how man conceived with God's knowledge of good and evil is a sin.

 

[percho]

Human faith believes in Santa Clause. Biblical faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, one of the effects of being saved. Catholics have Santa Clause faith as do many Evangelicals and Baptists

We agree..

I would put it this way, human faith (belief) brings forth Santa Clause. Biblical faith is a condition brought forth by God. These all died, in faith. In the condition of God sending forth Son, born of woman , to give his life, die for their sins.

When I first read the OP it caused me to think this;

God said to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Why? Why, do not eat, Why not consume that knowledge?

Doesn't, to eat of the knowledge, imply, your decisions, will always be contrary to God?

 

[DaveXR650]

What you are missing is my point that faith alone is evidence God saved a person. The saved went forward not knowing they were already saved. And Then Billy gave them false directions on how to save themselves by making a decision. This is decisional regeneration and is not found anywhere in scripture. They were saved but horribly confused, possibly for life

I think you are taking a desire for precise soteriology way too far when you say that a person should not do anything to indicate that they have come to Christ for salvation. We have different ideas based on scripture and logic as to the order of salvation. But what you have to remember is that from the individual's point of view they heard the message and it is completely proper to say that they decided to repent of their sins, believe the gospel, come to Christ, etc. The Calvinistic soteriology that says the first thing that actually happened was being made alive, or being given faith or being regenerated makes sense but it is not necessary that a person knows any of that when they come to Christ. I am aware of the many abuses of alter calls - I was there in the middle of most of it. I think I have sung 27 verses of Just As I Am to the point where I was ready to go forward just so they would quit. But I don't think it's wrong to have people indicate if they want to become a Christian - if they just heard the gospel why wait.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Then Roman 3:23 would be false. And you believe the mistranslation of Romans 9:11. And you do not understand how man conceived with God's knowledge of good and evil is a sin.

see #41

 

[37818]

Please tell me WHY these verses are in the Infallible Word of God?

Deuteronomy 1:39
And as for your little ones, who you said would become a prey, and your children, who today have no knowledge of good or evil, they shall go in there. And to them I will give it, and they shall possess it.

Isaiah 7:15-16
He shall eat curds and honey when he knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good. For before the boy knows how to refuse the evil and choose the good, the land whose two kings you dread will be deserted.

Jonah 4:11
And should not I pity Nineveh, that great city, in which there are more than 120,000 persons who do not know their right hand from their left, and also much cattle?”

Romans 9:11
though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad

Romans 9:11 mistranslated as "had done." Which is false. It is not to be in the singular. The very same word is also uniquely used in the plural in Acts 19:19.