Decisional Regeneration? What about today’s popular “alter call”

[1689Dave]

We agree..

I would put it this way, human faith (belief) brings forth Santa Clause. Biblical faith is a condition brought forth by God. These all died, in faith. In the condition of God sending forth Son, born of woman , to give his life, die for their sins.

When I first read the OP it caused me to think this;

God said to not eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

Why? Why, do not eat, Why not consume that knowledge?

Doesn't, to eat of the knowledge, imply, your decisions, will always be contrary to God?

Whatever is not of faith is sin. Says Paul

 

[1689Dave]

I think you are taking a desire for precise soteriology way too far when you say that a person should not do anything to indicate that they have come to Christ for salvation. We have different ideas based on scripture and logic as to the order of salvation. But what you have to remember is that from the individual's point of view they heard the message and it is completely proper to say that they decided to repent of their sins, believe the gospel, come to Christ, etc. The Calvinistic soteriology that says the first thing that actually happened was being made alive, or being given faith or being regenerated makes sense but it is not necessary that a person knows any of that when they come to Christ. I am aware of the many abuses of alter calls - I was there in the middle of most of it. I think I have sung 27 verses of Just As I Am to the point where I was ready to go forward just so they would quit. But I don't think it's wrong to have people indicate if they want to become a Christian - if they just heard the gospel why wait.

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. If you make one of these think they saved themselves by an act of the will, you are undermining Christ and salvation by grace. You replace grace with works. If you must decide to believe, it is only because you do not believe in any true sense.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Romans 9:11 mistranslated as "had done." Which is false. It is not to be in the singular. The very same word is also uniquely used in the plural in Acts 19:19.

what difference does it make whether it is singluar or plural?

 

[MB]

Jesus says whoever believes has eternal life. If you make one of these think they saved themselves by an act of the will, you are undermining Christ and salvation by grace. You replace grace with works. If you must decide to believe, it is only because you do not believe in any true sense.

.

It seems to me that all that comes out of your mouth is your own ideas. None of the above is in scripture. First of all we cannot undermine Christ with His demands of.
Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Luk_8:13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away.
Joh_1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
Joh_6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Joh_7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)
Joh_9:35 Jesus heard that they had cast him out; and when he had found him, he said unto him, Dost thou believe on the Son of God?
Joh_9:36 He answered and said, Who is he, Lord, that I might believe on him?
Joh_11:48 If we let him thus alone, all men will believe on him: and the Romans shall come and take away both our place and nation.
Joh_16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
Joh_17:20 Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word;
Act_16:31 And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.
Act_19:4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.
Rom_4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
Rom_10:14 How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Php_1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake;
1Ti_1:16 Howbeit for this cause I obtained mercy, that in me first Jesus Christ might shew forth all longsuffering, for a pattern to them which should hereafter believe on him to life everlasting.
1Jn_3:23 And this is his commandment, That we should believe on the name of his Son Jesus Christ, and love one another, as he gave us commandment.
1Jn_5:13 These things have I written unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God; that ye may know that ye have eternal life, and that ye may believe on the name of the Son of God.

In every instance believing is the only key.
Believing on Jesus is a work of God not man.
MB

 

[SavedByGrace]

In every instance believing is the only key

and Repentance

 

[37818]

what difference does it make whether it is singluar or plural?

Singular no good or evil. Plural, not much good and evil.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Singular no good or evil. Plural, not much good and evil.

Not really. The plural is used for sins as opposed to sin

 

[DaveXR650]

Dave. I understand your point in the sense that you don't want people who don't really have faith looking back at a time when they went forward at a meeting or something. But if done right, I see no problem with having people who have just come to faith during the time of preaching to indicate somehow that they have done so. I mean if you preach the gospel to a crowd of people, even in today's climate someone is liable to get saved. When I was a kid they used to counsel people who had come forward - they went through a careful explanation of the gospel message to try to make sure that no one came for any false reason and that they understood what they had just done. The church I go to now doesn't do that but I just don't see any harm either.

 

[percho]

Did God approach Abraham in order to give him an opportunity for salvation and had Abram not excepted God would have moved on to another or did God choose Abram unto Christ, unto faith and by doing so Abraham became the father of the faithful, the father of many nations through his seed Christ?

 

[1689Dave]

Dave. I understand your point in the sense that you don't want people who don't really have faith looking back at a time when they went forward at a meeting or something. But if done right, I see no problem with having people who have just come to faith during the time of preaching to indicate somehow that they have done so. I mean if you preach the gospel to a crowd of people, even in today's climate someone is liable to get saved. When I was a kid they used to counsel people who had come forward - they went through a careful explanation of the gospel message to try to make sure that no one came for any false reason and that they understood what they had just done. The church I go to now doesn't do that but I just don't see any harm either.

That would be ideal, but in real life, the preachers convert them into thinking they saved themselves. This happened to me and I could not escape until I dropped out of Church completely.

 

[percho]

Whatever is not of faith is sin. Says Paul

Amen brother. I know, no Greek but there be a reason it is in the generic.

To be belonged of God by His choice.

 

[37818]

Not really. The plural is used for sins as opposed to sin

How does that work with Acts 19:19? The very same verb and grammar in the plural. πραξαντων as used in Romans 9:11. And only those two places in the whole NT.

 

[DaveXR650]

That would be ideal, but in real life, the preachers convert them into thinking they saved themselves. This happened to me and I could not escape until I dropped out of Church completely.

That's true and I didn't mean to contradict you. I also know people who did the same thing who are very close to me and I know people who live lives that are no different from the average worldling and they still look back to a time where they walked an aisle as if that act will protect them. I just don't think that an alter call in itself is always wrong.

 

[DaveXR650]

Did God approach Abraham in order to give him an opportunity for salvation and had Abram not excepted God would have moved on to another or did God choose Abram unto Christ, unto faith and by doing so Abraham became the father of the faithful, the father of many nations through his seed Christ?

No but that's a different situation. When you and I give out the gospel or your pastor preaches a sermon we are just fellow humans trying to explain to people what we have discovered. And there again - I'm Calvinistic enough to believe that it was all the work of God and when I say we discovered it we just mean that from our point of view. There may be a great response or just a few like Paul in Corinth or it may end up like Stephen or like when Paul got attacked and left for dead.

 

[DaveXR650]

Just out of curiosity, what do you guys think of this popular song being sung in Calvinistic churches:
Let not conscience make you linger
Nor of fitness fondly dream
All the fitness he requireth
Is to feel your need of Him

I will rise and go to Jesus
He will embrace me in his arms
In the arms of my dear Savior
Oh there are ten thousand charms

Is the person doing a work if they rise and go to Jesus?

 

[Silverhair]

Earning salvation through obedience.

Then I have to conclude that you do not trust what Christ Jesus says

Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He sent."

So seems to me that we have to believe and it's not a work as you understand it.

 

[Silverhair]

Human faith believes in Santa Clause. Biblical faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit, one of the effects of being saved. Catholics have Santa Clause faith as do many Evangelicals and Baptists

I am not sure here but do you not think your being a bit judgey. I think we should leave the decision about someones faith or lack thereof up to God.

 

[Silverhair]

What causes people to sin other than their wicked hearts? Why do infants die in the womb if not sinful? The wages of sin is death.

Wow you have an amazingly low view of the love of God. You would have Him condemn infants to hell for something they have not done. That comes about because you fail to understand Gen 2:16-17 or Gen 3:17-19. Like they say if the foundation is faulty so is the building or in this case the theology.

 

[Silverhair]

Why do babies die in the womb? Because of Adam's imputed sin. The wages of sin is death.

And since in your theological view God has to determine all things that means that He gave the sin to those babies that He then judges them for and condemns to hell for sinning. That is not the loving God that the bible shows us so it has to be one you have made up.

 

[Silverhair]

Science proves your statement wrong.

Babies aren't as innocent as they look, according to new research out of the United Kingdom.

Sweet little infants actually learn to deceive before they can talk, says University of Portsmouth psychology department head Vasudevi Reddy in a study that challenges traditional notions of innocence while confirming many parents' suspicions about their sneaky babies.

Most psychologists have believed that children cannot really lie until about four years of age. But after dozens of interviews with parents, and years spent observing children, Dr. Reddy has determined that infants as young as seven months are quite skilled at pulling the wool over their parents' eyes.

Sneaky babies learn to lie before they learn to talk

Actually for it to be a lie the babies would have to have to ability to know right from wrong. See by your logic then your pets can lie also or have you never seen a dog whine and wag their tail to get something from their owner.Austin you may can that science but I would put it down as pseudoscience. D. Reddy found what they were looking for.