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Decline and debate of Penal Substitution Theory

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JonC

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Moderator
As many know one of the topics that most interests me is theories of the Atonement and the actual biblical narrative (the various ways the work of Christ has been articulated compared to what is stated in the text of Scripture).

Evangelicalism has adhered strongly to the Penal Substitution Theory. From the seventeenth through the eighteenth century it almost reigned supreme among Protestant churches, and certainly among Reformed churches. But in the late nineteenth century and following the Theory was met with rather sharp criticism from within Reformed tradition.

John Campbell, the Scottish minister and Reformed theologian (sometimes regarded synonymous with nineteenth British theology) distinctly deemphasized the Theory in favor of a position more akin to Recapitulation. Theologians like Geoffrey Lampe outright criticized the Theory as offensive. From there we’ve seen the Theory wane and then, perhaps, for a time resurge with Calvinism.

But now it appears the Theory is declining at a rate that alarms some. The SBC has offered a resolution that the Theory is essential. Denny Weaver has urged Mennonite theology farther from a blood atonement. And there are movements with Calvinism to reform Reformed theology.

The debate rages while Reformed theology loses ground with younger generations. But why? Is it the doctrinal arguments? Or is it something else?

I believe it is the latter. I believe that the basic presuppositions upon which the Theory stands are not shared as commonly as before. Part of this is, I believe, a product of postmodernism moving into “post post-modernism”. With postmodernism we saw a renewed interest in the traditionalism that modernism had shrugged off. But this renewed interest was only a façade passing itself off as the real thing, much like T.S. Elliot’s hollow-men. Old traditions were reclaimed, reinvented, and reimagined. In the context of Penal Substitution Theory, history was recreated so that the Early Church was like the evangelical church. With the decline of postmodernism, however, I think that there is more of a dissatisfaction as more Christians are sensing something wrong with tradition. Increasingly the hollow-men are being seen for what they are because those presuppositions which form the straw are missing.

My answer for its decline is that the Theory itself was a product of the worldview contemporary to the Reformers. Protestant Christianity found its identity in the Reformation just as much as in Scripture and held onto aspects of the antiquated sixteenth century worldview long beyond its usefulness by consistently reforming and reinventing its position. But as the falcon’s path stretched well beyond the control of the falconer (to borrow from Yates), Christians began to sense a problem as the ideologies and presuppositions at the base of their religious belief contrasted with the way that they understood the world itself.

Simply – the younger Christian generation identifies more with the fiction of C.S. Lewis and Ted Dekker (anti-Penal Substitution Theory) than it does with John Bunyan.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
So its not declining?
It has always been a minority view among Christians, but it is declining in context of Baptists (this is in the Baptist only section). The Baptist News Global noted that the Theory was developed as a part of Calvinism, but it is often the only theory that many Baptists know.

But now we have Baptist churches rejecting in the US rejecting the Theory. That does not mean they are correct (we also have at least one Baptist church that baptized an infant a couple of years ago).

I don't plan on arguing about whether or not we've seen a decline in the Theory. I am more interested in the reasons that people who do recognize a decline believe it has occurred.

I encourage those who do not believe there is such an issue to continue believing there is not. There is no need to worry about what cannot be seen.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
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It has always been a minority view among Christians, but it is declining in context of Baptists (this is in the Baptist only section). The Baptist News Global noted that the Theory was developed as a part of Calvinism, but it is often the only theory that many Baptists know.

But now we have Baptist churches rejecting in the US rejecting the Theory. That does not mean they are correct (we also have at least one Baptist church that baptized an infant a couple of years ago).

I don't plan on arguing about whether or not we've seen a decline in the Theory. I am more interested in the reasons that people who do recognize a decline believe it has occurred.

I encourage those who do not believe there is such an issue to continue believing there is not. There is no need to worry about what cannot be seen.
The main reason why it is in "decline" would be that those such as NT Wright has managed to write and talk about the wrath of God towards Jesus being a form of child abuse, and that many today are offended that somehow God would require Jesus to bear that wrath, or that the re must be a bloody atonement made for sins...
Problem is not scripture issue, but more a goes against what we see needed to save lost sinners issue!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
As many know one of the topics that most interests me is theories of the Atonement and the actual biblical narrative (the various ways the work of Christ has been articulated compared to what is stated in the text of Scripture).

Evangelicalism has adhered strongly to the Penal Substitution Theory. From the seventeenth through the eighteenth century it almost reigned supreme among Protestant churches, and certainly among Reformed churches. But in the late nineteenth century and following the Theory was met with rather sharp criticism from within Reformed tradition.

John Campbell, the Scottish minister and Reformed theologian (sometimes regarded synonymous with nineteenth British theology) distinctly deemphasized the Theory in favor of a position more akin to Recapitulation. Theologians like Geoffrey Lampe outright criticized the Theory as offensive. From there we’ve seen the Theory wane and then, perhaps, for a time resurge with Calvinism.

But now it appears the Theory is declining at a rate that alarms some. The SBC has offered a resolution that the Theory is essential. Denny Weaver has urged Mennonite theology farther from a blood atonement. And there are movements with Calvinism to reform Reformed theology.

The debate rages while Reformed theology loses ground with younger generations. But why? Is it the doctrinal arguments? Or is it something else?

I believe it is the latter. I believe that the basic presuppositions upon which the Theory stands are not shared as commonly as before. Part of this is, I believe, a product of postmodernism moving into “post post-modernism”. With postmodernism we saw a renewed interest in the traditionalism that modernism had shrugged off. But this renewed interest was only a façade passing itself off as the real thing, much like T.S. Elliot’s hollow-men. Old traditions were reclaimed, reinvented, and reimagined. In the context of Penal Substitution Theory, history was recreated so that the Early Church was like the evangelical church. With the decline of postmodernism, however, I think that there is more of a dissatisfaction as more Christians are sensing something wrong with tradition. Increasingly the hollow-men are being seen for what they are because those presuppositions which form the straw are missing.

My answer for its decline is that the Theory itself was a product of the worldview contemporary to the Reformers. Protestant Christianity found its identity in the Reformation just as much as in Scripture and held onto aspects of the antiquated sixteenth century worldview long beyond its usefulness by consistently reforming and reinventing its position. But as the falcon’s path stretched well beyond the control of the falconer (to borrow from Yates), Christians began to sense a problem as the ideologies and presuppositions at the base of their religious belief contrasted with the way that they understood the world itself.

Simply – the younger Christian generation identifies more with the fiction of C.S. Lewis and Ted Dekker (anti-Penal Substitution Theory) than it does with John Bunyan.
That would be due to a real lack of teaching the doctrines of the Chr9istian Faith in a comprehensive manner in many churches today, as people want to be entertained and get fluffy milk food served up to them!
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Actually, I shouldn't have posted that. I do not encourage ignorance.

For those who do not know, there are Baptist (and Southern Baptists) that have moved away from the Penal Substitution Theory. This is one reason why the SBC issued the resolution I referenced earlier.

There are people like Steven Harmon (Ph.D. from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Professor of Historical Theology at Gardner-Webb, and a Southern Baptist) and Curtis Freeman (Research Professor of Theology and Baptist studies, Duke Divinity School).

There is Matthew Emerson (Assistant Professor of Christian Studies, California Baptist University) believes the SBC needs to expand the Theory.

There are those Baptists, like Chuck Queen (Immanuel Baptist Church) who believe it is past time the SBC moves from the Theory into a more biblical approach.

There is the Mission Alliance.

There is the Center for Baptist Renewal.

Those are only a few places to start. And you have my apology for encouraging those who have not recognized the issue to ignore the issue. Dialogue should be encouraged, not stifled.
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Actually, I shouldn't have posted that. I do not encourage ignorance.

For those who do not know, there are Baptist (and Southern Baptists) that have moved away from the Penal Substitution Theory. This is one reason why the SBC issued the resolution I referenced earlier.

There are people like Steven Harmon (Ph.D. from Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary, Professor of Historical Theology at Gardner-Webb, and a Southern Baptist) and Curtis Freeman (Research Professor of Theology and Baptist studies, Duke Divinity School).

There is Matthew Emerson (Assistant Professor of Christian Studies, California Baptist University) believes the SBC needs to expand the Theory.

There are those Baptists, like Chuck Queen (Immanuel Baptist Church) who believe it is past time the SBC moves from the Theory into a more biblical approach.

There is the Mission Alliance.

There is the Center for Baptist Renewal.

Those are only a few places to start. And you have my apology for encouraging those who have not recognized the issue to ignore the issue. Dialogue should be encouraged, not stifled.
Yes, but you need to realize that many more of us Baptists stand solid behind the PST still!
 

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
That it is a minority view among Christians? Serious?

@Yeshua1 is right that it is a minority view among Baptists and Reformed. Is that what you mean by "Christian"?
The pst is held by a majority of both reformed and Baptists, minority among other groups....
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
Yes, but you need to realize that many more of us Baptists stand solid behind the PST still!
I agree. My comment is that we have more opposing from within than before. 50 years ago how many Baptist churches published views opposing the Theory? None that I know of. But within the Calvinistic Baptists (and Calvinism in general) there is a movement to "reform Reformed Theology". And among Baptists there is a movement to return to a "more biblical way".

I am not arguing right or wrong. I'm encouraged about these movements (although I'm sure most here find them akin to a different kind of movement :D ).

I'm just wondering why...as in why at this time has such opposition increased? Is it due to technology and the spread of ideas? Is it due to a mixture of competing ideas? Is it a change in worldviews or values? Is it an increased interest in doctrine? Is it an decline in doctrine?
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
I am serious it is not a minority view. I would like to see where you get your info
I never realized it was in question. But where I got the information at first was as a seminary student at Liberty University.

Anyway, it is a "minority view" because historically most Christian theology held a Ransom theory. Second to this was a Moral Influence theory combined with a Ransom theory. Penal Substitution Theory did not exist until Calvinism. As J.I. Packer points out - the elements were there but it was not articulated as the Theory until the Reformation. No one disagrees with the "elements" that were there. It is the formation of the theory (what holds these elements together) that forms Penal Substitution Theory.
I am serious it is not a minority view
Where are you getting your info?

BUT again - this is not the topic. The topic is why more have rejected the Theory.
 

Martin Marprelate

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Site Supporter
Penal Substitution has been under attack ever since the rise of liberal theology in the 19th Century. 'Liberal Protestants.....felt outraged at the doctrine and complained about a "blood" theology, in their eyes an ugly relic of primitive stages in man's religious evolution' (Henri Blocher). Spurgeon wrote and preached about it. Before and just after the war, C.H. Dodd wrote against the Doctrine, and was answered by men like Leon Morris, Roger Nicole and Martyn Lloyd-Jones. More recently, the book I keep on plugging, Pierced for our Transgressions was written to counter a stream of books opposing the doctrine.

I would say it's just part of Satan's long war against Biblical doctrine.
JonC said:
The Baptist News Global noted that the Theory was developed as a part of Calvinism
That will be news to John and Charles Wesley.
 

Martin Marprelate

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
There have been several books written on Penal Substitution around 2000, either by liberals or pseudo-evangelicals like Steve Chalke and Alan Mann. Their book, The Lost Message of Jesus caused quite a storm over here. I'm not aware of any books since that one was published in 2003 and Mann produced Atonement for a "Sinless" Society in 2005.

There have also been books defending P.S. I'm told that The Divine Substitute: The Atonement in the Bible and History by Ian Shaw and Brian Edwards (2006) is excellent and at a more popular level than Pierced for our Transgressions.

In the churches I associate with, I would say that P.S. is, if anything, more popular than before, but a large portion of British churches, including many of those of the Baptist Union, have simply caved in to the spirit of the age or have given up on theology altogether.
 

JonC

Moderator
Moderator
There have been several books written on Penal Substitution around 2000, either by liberals or pseudo-evangelicals like Steve Chalke and Alan Mann. Their book, The Lost Message of Jesus caused quite a storm over here. I'm not aware of any books since that one was published in 2003 and Mann produced Atonement for a "Sinless" Society in 2005.

There have also been books defending P.S. I'm told that The Divine Substitute: The Atonement in the Bible and History by Ian Shaw and Brian Edwards (2006) is excellent and at a more popular level than Pierced for our Transgressions.

In the churches I associate with, I would say that P.S. is, if anything, more popular than before, but a large portion of British churches, including many of those of the Baptist Union, have simply caved in to the spirit of the age or have given up on theology altogether.
I have to note that I am not speaking about penal substitution but Penal Substitution Theory (Calvinism). I think that you may have misunderstood my point here. There are no books written prior to the Reformation that refer to Penal Substitution Theory in terms of the the Son experiencing the penal judgment of God on the Cross instead of us. But certainly there are, as Packer adequately pointed out, many instances of penal substitution not only throughout history but also in Scripture.

I was wondering if the UK is experiencing such a debate. Thanks for answering.

Here we have a few instances here- within the SBC (I'm Southern Baptist) we have several pastors and professors that have sought to broaden the traditional Theory. We have several that think this is keeping too much error and believe it is time to move from the Theory all together. This caused enough concern for the SBC to adopt a resolution.

There is the Center for Baptist Renewal which "is a group of conservative, evangelical Baptists committed to a retrieval of the Great Tradition of the historic church for the renewal of Baptist faith and practice. Our mission is to equip leaders to appropriate perspectives and practices of the historic church within the context of their local congregations."

Outside of traditional Baptist denominations there are "non-denominational" churches that are baptist in nature (although they do not claim the name) who have strong influences from more liberal Anabaptist theology. This is evident, I believe, most in the writings of Weaver.

And within Calvinism there is a renewed interest in T.F. Torrance and a desire to reform Reformed Theology by either dismissing the Latin view all together or incorporating the classical and Latin positions to achieve what they believe is a position less dependent on the circumstances of the Reformation.
 
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