Defending the Truth

[KenH]

"In these days of boasted liberality, it may appear captious to oppose with zeal the errors of men who have acquired a name in the Christian world. The mantle of charity, it will be said, ought to be thrown over mistakes that have resulted from a free and impartial investigation of truth, and if not wholly overlooked, they should be noticed with a slight expression of disapprobation. Such, however, was not the conduct of the Apostle Paul. He spared neither churches nor individuals, when the doctrines they maintained tended to the subversion of the Gospel; and the zeal with which he resisted their errors was not inferior to that with which he encountered the open enemies of Christianity. He affirms that the doctrine introduced into the Galatian churches is another Gospel, and twice pronounces a curse against all by whom it was promulgated. Instead of complimenting the authors of this corruption of the Gospel as only abusing in a slight degree the liberty of free examination, he decides that they should be cut off as troublers of the churches. Let not Christians be more courteous in expressing their views of the guilt and danger of corrupting the Gospel, than faithful and compassionate to the people of Christ who may be injured by false doctrine. It is highly sinful to bandy compliments at the expense of truth.

The awful responsibility of being accessory to the propagation of error is strongly expressed by the Apostle John. 'If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God-speed; for he that biddeth him God-speed is partaker of his evil deeds.’ If the imputation of Adam's sin and of Christ’s righteousness be doctrines contained in the word of God, commentaries that labour to expel them from that word must be grossly pestiferous books, which no Christian ought to recommend, but which, on the contrary, to the utmost of his power, it is his duty to oppose."

- from Robert Haldane's Commentary on Romans

 

[37818]

. . . the imputation of Adam's sin . . .

Romans 5:13-15, ". . . For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law. Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come. . . ."

 

[tyndale1946]

Galatians1:6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel:

7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.

8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.

9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.

10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.

11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.

12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

ALL of CHRIST and NONE of me!... Brother Glen

 

[Silverhair]

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

ALL of CHRIST and NONE of me.

God saves those that believe in the Son. If you do not believe then you are not saved. God does not drag you to Him He draws you via the gospel message which is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

 

[KenH]

God does not drag you to Him

For a rebuttal to this statement, one can go to this thread and post #144: "Believing is the consequence of the new birth" | Page 8 | Baptist Christian Forums (baptistboard.com)

Silverhair and I already went round and round about this subject and I see no reason to post the same arguments in this thread when the reader can be directed to the subject already having been debated in another thread.

 

[Silverhair]

For a rebuttal to this statement, one can go to this thread and post #144: "Believing is the consequence of the new birth" | Page 8 | Baptist Christian Forums (baptistboard.com)

Silverhair and I already went round and round about this subject and I see no reason to post the same arguments in this thread when the reader can be directed to the subject already having been debated in another thread.

helko to draw, compel
helko [helkuo] to draw, compel G1670
The basic meaning is “to draw,” “tug,” of, in the case of persons, “compel.” It may be used for “to draw” to a place by magic, for demons being “drawn” to animal life, or for the inner influencing of the will (Plato). The Semitic world has the concept of an irresistible drawing to God (cf. 1Sa_10:5; 1Sa_19:19 ff.; Jer_29:26; Hos_9:7). In the OT helkein denotes a powerful impulse, as in Son_1:4, which is obscure but expresses the force of love. This is the point in the two important passages in Joh_6:44; Joh_12:32. There is no thought here of force or magic. The term figuratively expresses the supernatural power of the love of God of Christ which goes out to all (Joh_12:32) but without which no one can come (Joh_6:44). The apparent contradiction shows that both the election and the universality of grace must be taken seriously; the compulsion is not automatic.
A. OEPKE, II, 503–04 TDNT Theological Dictionary of the New Testament

Augustine wrote about Joh_6:44, “If a man comes unwillingly, he does not believe; if he does not believe, he does not come. For we do not run to Christ on our feet, but by faith; not with the movement of the body, but with the freewill of the heart.” CHURCH FATHERS: On Grace and Free Will (St. Augustine)

Whereas Joh_6:44 is the Father’s drawing of true Israel, Joh_12:32 is the Son’s drawing of all men, meaning the Gentiles too.
But these verses do not say anywhere that all who are drawn must come! Instead it is saying that all who come must have been drawn!

 

[KenH]

@Silverhair I am not going to do another back-and-forth in this thread. I won't be your sparring partner.

 

[Silverhair]

@Silverhair I am not going to do another back-and-forth in this thread. I won't be your sparring partner.

So now you admit that your theology does not fit with scripture. Your not sparing with me but the bible and God.

 

[KenH]

So now you admit that your theology does not fit with scripture. Your not sparing with me but the bible and God.

You are not going to goad me into re-debating an issue in which you have already been shown to be incorrect in the other thread that I linked to.

 

[Silverhair]

You are not going to goad me into re-debating an issue in which you have already been shown to be incorrect in the other thread that I linked to.

That is your opinion. The reality is that you did not show my view to be incorrect, you just think you did. You have chosen to use "drag" where it does not fit the context and Greek Scholars have said that it does not. I even quoted their words yet you cling to your errant version. So as I said, your disagreement is with the bible & God.

 

[KenH]

That is your opinion. The reality is that you did not show my view to be incorrect, you just think you did. You have chosen to use "drag" where it does not fit the context and Greek Scholars have said that it does not. I even quoted their words yet you cling to your errant version. So as I said, your disagreement is with the bible & God.

Have a nice day, Silverhair.

 

[tyndale1946]

Rom 3:20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.

Rom 3:21 But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets,

Rom 3:22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference;

Rom 3:23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,

Rom 3:24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus,

Rom 3:25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed,

Rom 3:26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.

Rom 3:27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith.

Rom 3:28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.

ALL of CHRIST and NONE of me.

God saves those that believe in the Son. If you do not believe then you are not saved. God does not drag you to Him He draws you via the gospel message which is the power of God unto salvation for everyone who believes, for the Jew first and also for the Greek.

Same here Silverhair... Have a nice day... Brother Glen