Define good education

[Luke2427]

{Snip}

Since the subject seems to be settled that all Christians ought to be well educated on a matter of theological substance before speaking out on it and that failure to do so is great wickedness and tremendously dangerous seeing as it has to do with the person of God and influences the immortal souls of men and seeing as how haphazard handling of such sacred things is unspeakably blasphemous...

Here is my question:

What is a good Bible education that qualifies one to speak on matters of such massive importance in your view?

 

[Ruiz]

I am not quite sure what your exact question is trying to get to, but education is a passion of mine. Let me note what I believe a good Christian education should consist of.

I believe every Christian Child graduating from High School should have the following proficiency:

1. Church History. They should know the major historic Christian figures, major events, and to be able to synthesize various issues throughout church history by communicating the controversy and explaining the Biblical solution.
2. New Testament Survey. The child should understand
3. Systematic Theology. The child should have a solid understanding of the major divisions of theology and how they come together.
4. Historic Theology.
5. Have studied through various books of the Bible exegetically. I would include among those books Romans. They should be able to understand the overall outline of the book and discuss the major theological issues of the book while offering a compelling defense of theology in general from the book.
6. Spiritual Disciplines. They should understand the historic and Biblical disciplines and how they relate to each other.
7. I believe everyone should memorize a catechism.
8. Perhaps a study in the Greek language.
9. The children should be a part of a Bible memory system.

Education is more than knowledge, it also encompasses your heart, your actions, and your habits (I say it should impact your "heart, hands, head, and habits").

 

[quantumfaith]

I am not quite sure what your exact question is trying to get to, but education is a passion of mine. Let me note what I believe a good Christian education should consist of.

I believe every Christian Child graduating from High School should have the following proficiency:

1. Church History. They should know the major historic Christian figures, major events, and to be able to synthesize various issues throughout church history by communicating the controversy and explaining the Biblical solution.
2. New Testament Survey. The child should understand
3. Systematic Theology. The child should have a solid understanding of the major divisions of theology and how they come together.
4. Historic Theology.
5. Have studied through various books of the Bible exegetically. I would include among those books Romans. They should be able to understand the overall outline of the book and discuss the major theological issues of the book while offering a compelling defense of theology in general from the book.
6. Spiritual Disciplines. They should understand the historic and Biblical disciplines and how they relate to each other.
7. I believe everyone should memorize a catechism.
8. Perhaps a study in the Greek language.
9. The children should be a part of a Bible memory system.

Education is more than knowledge, it also encompasses your heart, your actions, and your habits (I say it should impact your "heart, hands, head, and habits").

Ruiz, I totally agree with you here, I also think it is important to have a solid exposure to philosophy, science, mathematics, history and literature as well. Additional knowledge in the general knowledge of humanity helps us to defend our faith against so called "intellectuals" in the various branches of knowledge that "persuade" so many young people away from the faith.

 

[Luke2427]

I am not quite sure what your exact question is trying to get to, but education is a passion of mine. Let me note what I believe a good Christian education should consist of.

I believe every Christian Child graduating from High School should have the following proficiency:

1. Church History. They should know the major historic Christian figures, major events, and to be able to synthesize various issues throughout church history by communicating the controversy and explaining the Biblical solution.
2. New Testament Survey. The child should understand
3. Systematic Theology. The child should have a solid understanding of the major divisions of theology and how they come together.
4. Historic Theology.
5. Have studied through various books of the Bible exegetically. I would include among those books Romans. They should be able to understand the overall outline of the book and discuss the major theological issues of the book while offering a compelling defense of theology in general from the book.
6. Spiritual Disciplines. They should understand the historic and Biblical disciplines and how they relate to each other.
7. I believe everyone should memorize a catechism.
8. Perhaps a study in the Greek language.
9. The children should be a part of a Bible memory system.

Education is more than knowledge, it also encompasses your heart, your actions, and your habits (I say it should impact your "heart, hands, head, and habits").

This is like sweet music to my ears!

I have five children, my oldest is 9. I am taking them through Bruce Ware's book, Big Truths for Young Hearts which is a systematic theology for children.
I really appreciate what you said about children memorizing a good catechism. That is what we will start doing next.

But I could not agree with anyone more than I agree with you in this post.

Thanks for being a breath of fresh air.

I hope others will reflect such feelings and convictions in this thread.

 

[Luke2427]

Ruiz, I totally agree with you here, I also think it is important to have a solid exposure to philosophy, science, mathematics, history and literature as well. Additional knowledge in the general knowledge of humanity helps us to defend our faith against so called "intellectuals" in the various branches of knowledge that "persuade" so many young people away from the faith.

But didn't you give the maximum number of allowable thumbs up to Winman when he said that he did not need any man to teach him because he has the Holy Ghost?

Here it is.


I don't understand how you can agree with Ruiz's pro Christians being educated theologically (of necessity by God gifted teachers) statements and Winman's anti-spiritual education statements (he don't need no stinking teachers! He got the Holy GHOST!!!!) at the same time???

 

[matt wade]

Since the subject seems to be settled that all Christians ought to be well educated on a matter of theological substance before speaking out on it and that failure to do so is great wickedness and tremendously dangerous seeing as it has to do with the person of God and influences the immortal souls of men and seeing as how haphazard handling of such sacred things is unspeakably blasphemous...

So you are saying that a man that is not well educated has the ability to influence the immortal souls of men? What these unlearned men be able to influence immortal souls in such a way that they may not be saved? If not, in what way can the immortal souls of men be influenced?

 

[J.D.]

The best outcome of education is when a person comes to know how little they actually know, contrary to their previous opinion of themselves.

In other words, the more you know, the more you know that you don't know what you thought you knew. Know what I mean?

But seriously, if you follow the Classical Education model advocated by Doug Wilson, education is not complete until one is a handle on the subjects mentioned by Ruiz and Quantumfiath, and also Latin and Hebrew.

But more important than the measure of education is the attitude one has toward it. Are we oriented towards growth or satisfied with mental stagnation? Are we striving for more knowledge, or are we holing away behind a wall of false self-satisfied ignorance, like so many of our anti-intellectual Christians of today?

 

[freeatlast]

[snipped as per TomVol's instruction above]

Since the subject seems to be settled that all Christians ought to be well educated on a matter of theological substance before speaking out on it and that failure to do so is great wickedness and tremendously dangerous seeing as it has to do with the person of God and influences the immortal souls of men and seeing as how haphazard handling of such sacred things is unspeakably blasphemous...

Here is my question:

What is a good Bible education that qualifies one to speak on matters of such massive importance in your view?

Wisdom.:thumbs:

 

[Luke2427]

The best outcome of education is when a person comes to know how little they actually know, contrary to their previous opinion of themselves.

I have come in the last four years to experience this personally. I honestly believe that I had no business in a pulpit pastoring a people for much of my ministry.

In fact I still feel ill prepared. I have always felt unworthy of the task. But now I feel that I was totally inept and still have a long way to go in my education before I feel qualified.

But I was from a Baptist movement that throws up churches like McDonald's throws up restaurants and throws anybody in the pulpits to lead those churches who says they feel called to preach.

In other words, the more you know, the more you know that you don't know what you thought you knew. Know what I mean?

That is exactly what real education does. It humbles a man and makes him realize how dumb he really is.

People who have not had this type of theological training do not know what this is like.

But seriously, if you follow the Classical Education model advocated by Doug Wilson, education is not complete until one is a handle on the subjects mentioned by Ruiz and Quantumfiath, and also Latin and Hebrew.

I love Doug Wilson. Just yesterday I watched for the third time one of his debates with Hitchens as he traversed the country making Collision.

But more important than the measure of education is the attitude one has toward it. Are we oriented towards growth or satisfied with mental stagnation? Are we striving for more knowledge, or are we holing away behind a wall of false self-satisfied ignorance, like so many of our anti-intellectual Christians of today?

This is the point I am trying to make better than I have been able to put it.

 

[quantumfaith]

The best outcome of education is when a person comes to know how little they actually know, contrary to their previous opinion of themselves.

In other words, the more you know, the more you know that you don't know what you thought you knew. Know what I mean?

But seriously, if you follow the Classical Education model advocated by Doug Wilson, education is not complete until one is a handle on the subjects mentioned by Ruiz and Quantumfiath, and also Latin and Hebrew.

But more important than the measure of education is the attitude one has toward it. Are we oriented towards growth or satisfied with mental stagnation? Are we striving for more knowledge, or are we holing away behind a wall of false self-satisfied ignorance, like so many of our anti-intellectual Christians of today?

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

 

[JesusFan]

[QUote of Snipped material]
Since the subject seems to be settled that all Christians ought to be well educated on a matter of theological substance before speaking out on it and that failure to do so is great wickedness and tremendously dangerous seeing as it has to do with the person of God and influences the immortal souls of men and seeing as how haphazard handling of such sacred things is unspeakably blasphemous...

Here is my question:

What is a good Bible education that qualifies one to speak on matters of such massive importance in your view?

DEpends on WHAT area for the education that you are referncing here...

IF one is to be say a Bible translator/profeesor/Teacher/Author etc one in "formal" educational circle...
Than needs to be educated in College/Seminary/know history/interact with other scholars in your profession etc... HIGH education i call this

IF a teacher in local Church...

One should be well versed in bible, know and use GOOD study aids, have and use good study aids, be well versed in various doctrines etc

IF all of us, can be learned and equipped for service of the Lord by studying the Bible, by use of good study tools available to us....

basically, unless called and gifted bY God to be pastor/profeesor/Translater need on HIGH education to meet that calling..

ALL rest of us can get same education in Bible, good bible study aids, bible software etc to become a student able to "rightly divide the Word of God!"



Amount/degree/kind of education ALL DEPENDS on just what area referring to here!

 

[Ruiz]

My response was for what I believed is needed for Christian kids graduating from high school.

 

[quantumfaith]

My response was for what I believed is needed for Christian kids graduating from high school.

I understand, Ruiz. I think we should do all "we" can in churches to offer a rich education in biblical doctrines, and theology for the masses of people who had no opportunity for such in school.

 

[Skandelon]

[Quote and response to snipped material]

First, almost every thread here has many different conversations and directions. Second, my points were much more on topic than many of the other posters in that thread and others. Third, there were many posters contributing to the direction of that thread. [response to snipped material]

I think we agree here on principle Luke. [snip] plase allow me to try to say the same thing in a bit more "kind" manner and see if you can agree.

To say "you ought not to talk about it" suggests that people can't ask questions, disagree, or engage in conversation about matters they aren't studied in, but how else are they to learn if they don't engage in conversation about new topics?

I think what you mean is that people who haven't studied a particular subject should NOT speak as if they are an authority on the matter. They shouldn't pretend to know more than they do. Then they should seek to learn through discussion, study and engaging the topic.

Would you agree thus far?

That post was not answered by Luke, but was ignored. My second post was in response to Matt Wade's question regarding God's role in man's desire for scholarship, which Luke dismissed as a red herring and to that post Luke DID respond.

So, he neglected the post above, which is in specific response to the OP, and replied to my defense of Matt (it takes two to tango).

I simply asked,"How God's influence on one's scholarship and desire to speak is a red herring and unrelated to this discussion? Do you just not want to bring God's influence in on this discussion so you can continue to rebuke men for not desiring what God has casually determined them not to desire?" And low and behold, once again, Luke didn't ignore the posts where I followed up on Matt's question. In fact, he rebutted saying, "Stick with whether or not scholarship is absolutely necessary if one is to teach others things that impact their immortal souls." And I replied asking, "How can you speak of the necessity of something without discussing its necessary origin?" Which I still feel is a valid question and clearly related to the subject at hand, but I will not pursue it any further so I can't be falsely accused of "hijacking" a thread again. I think we can all see why Luke would want to avoid that particular point in regard to this topic. I'll leave it at that. [Snip]
[response to snipped material]

 

[matt wade]

My second post was in response to Matt Wade's question regarding God's role in man's desire for scholarship, which Luke dismissed as a red herring and to that post Luke DID respond.

Hey, don't drag me into this. God made me post what I did. He changed my desires so that I wanted to post on that thread.

 

[Skandelon]

Hey, don't drag me into this. God made me post what I did. He changed my desires so that I wanted to post on that thread.

Yeah, Matt, stop hijacking Luke's threads with your pesky little questions about God's role in all this!

Oops, I meant to say: God, stop making Matt want to hijack Luke's thread!!! :smilewinkgrin:

 

[TomVols]

Folks, topics or OPs directed at members are not allowed. Also, rehashing things in a closed thread is not allowed. That said, legitimate points of discussion were raised in another forum that was Off Topic. Now, the topic is up for discussion. Leave the ad hominem at the door, or else FIND the door, okay punkins? :tongue3:

 

[John of Japan]

I think teaching your child a love for the Word is far more important than teaching doctrine per se, though doctrine is good. In other words, wisdom is more important than knowledge and understanding. If he or she has a love for the Word they will pursue good doctrine all of their lives. And the proof is in the pudding: we only had one child, but he is currently ABD with his Ph. D. in NT (Greek) at Southeastern, studying under Black, Kostenberger and the like.

Here is a lack I see in discussions like this. The difference between wisdom, understanding and knowledge is not discussed, yet this is a clear delineation in the Bible between these three, both in the OT and NT. For example, what do you do with the statement, "Knowledge puffeth up, but love edifieth"?

 

[humblethinker]

So you are saying that a man that is not well educated has the ability to influence the immortal souls of men? What these unlearned men be able to influence immortal souls in such a way that they may not be saved? If not, in what way can the immortal souls of men be influenced?

Not knowing your viewpoint on Calvinism I'm not sure whether to take you seriously or laugh at your tongue-in-cheek! ;-)

 

[Don]

I think teaching your child a love for the Word is far more important than teaching doctrine per se, though doctrine is good. In other words, wisdom is more important than knowledge and understanding. If he or she has a love for the Word they will pursue good doctrine all of their lives. And the proof is in the pudding: we only had one child, but he is currently ABD with his Ph. D. in NT (Greek) at Southeastern, studying under Black, Kostenberger and the like.

Here is a lack I see in discussions like this. The difference between wisdom, understanding and knowledge is not discussed, yet this is a clear delineation in the Bible between these three, both in the OT and NT. For example, what do you do with the statement, "Knowledge puffeth up, but love edifieth"?

There is an area of the military these days that deals with "knowledge management." They seek to take data and turn it into information, turn that into knowledge, that it may be turned into understanding and be usable. For example, knowing the temperature is data; relating that to the area of the world you're sitting in becomes information; coupling that with other information, such as certain types of lubricants work better in certain types of weather, becomes knowledge. Applying that to what you're trying to accomplish -- e.g., I can't fly planes in a particular area because it's too hot for the type of lubricants, or I have to get a different type of lubricant so that I can fly planes -- becomes understanding and wisdom.

I can develop all the bible knowledge I am capable of, and share that knowledge; but if I've missed out on the message of the bible, I'm not doing anyone any good.

At least, that's what I think you're saying.