Defining Pentecostal Doctrine

[rockytopva]

I believe hearing from God and experiencing the actual Holy Spirit is a seven step process... And from the Azusa Street revival....

1. The Outer Court - Justification - Faith to enter in.
2. The Altar - Salvation by acknowledging and believing on Jesus
3. The Laver - The clean effects of sanctification.
4. Table of Showbread – Partaking of the Word of God.
5. Light at the Lightstand - Faith, hope, charity, joy, grace, spiritual fruit, etc.
6. The Golden Incense Altar - Prayer and Praise meetings.
7. The Holy of Holies - The Shekinah Glory and Baptism of the Holy Ghost.

And when Moses was gone into the tabernacle of the congregation to speak with him, then he heard the voice of one speaking unto him from off the mercy seat that was upon the ark of testimony, from between the two cherubims: and he spake unto him. - Numbers 7:89

It was in the Holy of Holies that God spoke to Moses. It is also the place where you can hear from him too. This is Pentecostal doctrine whose architect, William Seymour, issued this disclaimer...

William Seymour warned that, “Whenever the doctrine of the baptism in the Holy Ghost will only be known as the evidence of speaking in tongues, that work will be an open door for witches and spiritualist and free loveism. That work will suffer because all kinds of spirits can come in.”

From the William Seymour archives....

 

[rockytopva]

I went from GARBC Baptist to a Pentecostal Holiness church that was in revival. It was easy to experience the things of God in those days. And you could tell the sanctification was something that took root within the heart. I worry these days that the sanctification is no longer emphasized.

 

[Marooncat79]

1. They have a works based Gospel. The Gospel is not enough, ie you gotta speak in tongues etc

2. They deny almost all of the solas in some way esp Fide, Scripture others are denied indirectly,

3. They abuse the HS, believing that He is at their beck and call ie casting out demons, and demanding physical healing

4. They often deny the Trinity often explicitly

5. They often believe that people are capable of living truly sinless lives which rejects I John and the Lords Prayer

6. They reject reality by claiming that the stripes of Jesus were meant for physical healing in the here and now

 

[rockytopva]

1. They have a works based Gospel. The Gospel is not enough, ie you gotta speak in tongues etc

2. They deny almost all of the solas in some way esp Fide, Scripture others are denied indirectly,

3. They abuse the HS, believing that He is at their beck and call ie casting out demons, and demanding physical healing

4. They often deny the Trinity often explicitly

5. They often believe that people are capable of living truly sinless lives which rejects I John and the Lords Prayer

6. They reject reality by claiming that the stripes of Jesus were meant for physical healing in the here and now

That would be what I would call Oneness Pentecostalism, the Wesley Pentecostals such as Assembly of God and Pentecostal Holiness do not believe that way. I do not like Oneness Pentecostalism.

 

[rockytopva]

It is the will of God for us to be...

1. Saved
2. Sanctified
3. Filled with the Holy Spirit

"Sanctification makes us pure on the inside." - William Seymour

The Ordinances of the Azusa Street Mission were Basically Seven….

Justification by faith – We are saved, or justified, by simple faith in Christ.
Sanctification by faith - As a second definite work of grace upon the heart and evidenced by the sweet spirit of Christ in the experience!
Power - The baptism in the Holy Ghost is a gift of power upon the sanctified life, anointing it in service and in work, with the speaking in tongues as one of the ‘signs following’ in the baptized believer along with casting out devils, healing the sick and the fruits of the Spirit accompanying the signs.
Marriage – As a holy union between a man and a woman.
Water Baptism – On those who have reached the age of accountability
Communion - “We believe in the ordinance of the Lord’s supper as instituted by Jesus and followed by the apostles, and teach that it should be frequently observed in holy reverence.”
Foot Washing - “We believe in feet washing as an ordinance, as it was established by our Master before the Lord’s supper, according to John 13:4-18, and believe it was practiced by the Apostles and disciples through the First Century” (1 Tim. 5:10).

The Methods to the Fullness of the Spirit of God were Basically Seven....

1. Justification - Faith to enter in
2. Salvation - Christ is our sacrifice
3. Sanctification - "Sanctification makes us clean on the inside." - William Seymour
4. Bible Reading - At the Table of Shewbread
5. Spiritual Fruit - At the Lampstand
6. Prayer and Praise meetings - At the Altar of Golden Incense
7. The Baptism in the Holy Spirit - In the Holy of Holies

And in William Seymours own handwriting....

 

[rockytopva]

The problem being, nobody teaches sanctification these days.

 

[Yeshua1]

1. They have a works based Gospel. The Gospel is not enough, ie you gotta speak in tongues etc

2. They deny almost all of the solas in some way esp Fide, Scripture others are denied indirectly,

3. They abuse the HS, believing that He is at their beck and call ie casting out demons, and demanding physical healing

4. They often deny the Trinity often explicitly

5. They often believe that people are capable of living truly sinless lives which rejects I John and the Lords Prayer

6. They reject reality by claiming that the stripes of Jesus were meant for physical healing in the here and now

we have to face the truth that the so called Azusa movement could very well been demonic deception!

 

[Washad]

I was going to ask if you meant Oneness/Apostolic or Classical Pentacostal. Since you mention the classical side I would say that:
1. They are absolutely Trinitarian in theology.
2. The Holy Spirit indwells evert believer at the moment of salvation. The Baptism of the Holy Ghost for power is subsequent to salvation. It is the Baptism that is evidenced by speaking in tongues not salvation.
3. Sanctification is sought and why not? As Leonard Ravenhill said "The greatest miracle in the world is that God can take an unholy man out of an unholy world, make him holy, put him back into an unholy world and keep him holy." We claim what we have not experienced. They just believe we can experience it. Again to quote LR "The evidence of being filled with the Holy Spirit is living a holy life"
Baptists and classical pentacostals were very close in their theology. I don't know where the animosity comes from.

 

[rockytopva]

we have to face the truth that the so called Azusa movement could very well been demonic deception!

It is not new that demonic things accompany religious gatherings....

Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan came also among them. - Job 1:6

I find the way to recognize the good from the bad is that the bad is accompanied with a terrible ego. Which makes the footwashing service a good thing. Demonic ego will never go for rituals such as foot washings.

 

[rockytopva]

I am a member Pentecostal Holiness, started in the late 1800s from a Methodist evangelist in North Carolina.

International Pentecostal Holiness Church - Wikipedia

Here in 2020 we have many of our people getting advanced degrees from Baptist seminaries. My pastor has a Masters degree at Lynchburg’s Liberty University.

 

[rockytopva]

As far as the tongues part it was never scriptural to forbid it...

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

But to exercise judgement and discernment is good.

 

[Wesley Briggman]

As far as the tongues part it was never scriptural to forbid it...

Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues. - 1 Corinthians 14:39

But to exercise judgement and discernment is good.

[1Co 14:28 KJV] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
[1Co 14:39 KJV] Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Has there ever been an interpreter present? If so, what was the translation? Was it a new revelation? Was it a restatement of a previously known revelation?

If there was an interpreter present, I have additional questions.

 

[rockytopva]

[1Co 14:28 KJV] But if there be no interpreter, let him keep silence in the church; and let him speak to himself, and to God.
[1Co 14:39 KJV] Wherefore, brethren, covet to prophesy, and forbid not to speak with tongues.

Has there ever been an interpreter present? If so, what was the translation? Was it a new revelation? Was it a restatement of a previously known revelation?

If there was an interpreter present, I have additional questions.

Here is a lady speaking in tongues in church. There was a pause in service, as there was no interpreter the service moved on. And everything was done decently and in order. There has been interpretations after the pause in service....

 

[Wesley Briggman]

Here is a lady speaking in tongues in church. There was a pause in service, as there was no interpreter the service moved on. And everything was done decently and in order. There has been interpretations after the pause in service....

[1Co 14:28 ESV] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
[1Co 14:33 ESV] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
[1Co 14:34 ESV] the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
[1Co 14:39 ESV] So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

No interpreter and a woman speaking in Church! God's instructions to His church are being mocked. The Holy Spirit is not speaking through that woman. Since it is not the Holy Spirit, guess who's spirit it is.

God will not give His blessings to those who willfully defy His revealed will.

 

[rockytopva]

[1Co 14:28 ESV] But if there is no one to interpret, let each of them keep silent in church and speak to himself and to God.
[1Co 14:33 ESV] For God is not a God of confusion but of peace. As in all the churches of the saints,
[1Co 14:34 ESV] the women should keep silent in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be in submission, as the Law also says.
[1Co 14:39 ESV] So, my brothers, earnestly desire to prophesy, and do not forbid speaking in tongues.

No interpreter and a woman speaking in Church! God's instructions to His church are being mocked. The Holy Spirit is not speaking through that woman. Since it is not the Holy Spirit, guess who's spirit it is.

God will not give His blessings to those who willfully defy His revealed will.

She did not know there would be no interpreter. We consider the woman in obedience.

 

[rockytopva]

I left that church service in good Christian spirits and refreshed.

 

[Salty]

She did not know there would be no interpreter. We consider the woman in obedience.

No interpreter - no speaking in tongues!!!

 

[rockytopva]

No interpreter - no speaking in tongues!!!

She did cease and the service progressed with the preaching.

 

[rockytopva]

I don't mind recommending Baptist churches. I had a book ministry at work in which some guy, after reading one of the testimonial books, wanted to get saved but not in my Pentecostal Holiness church. I had a friend I knew as Ray who was baptist, so I took him to a Baptist church. Well, they had a Franklin Graham testimonial film that Sunday night and my friend goes up to get saved... Only... There is no altar! Some guy gets my friend and takes him to a Sunday School room and begins to talk all that doctrine.... Now get the picture... Here is a guy ready to receive Christ with tears running down his cheek and he is getting doctrinalized! I was thinking to myself for the crying out loud say the sinners prayer! Let him acknowledge Christ so he can go through to salvation!

 

[Wesley Briggman]

She did not know there would be no interpreter. We consider the woman in obedience.

Have "we" given any scriptural consideration of what state God considers her and all of you in?

I pray the Holy Spirit will intervene in your lives and open your spiritual eyes.

[Act 9:18 ESV] "And immediately something like scales fell from his eyes, and he regained his sight....;"