Featured Defining Terms (please read the first post)

You have put a lot down and today I do not have the luxury of time to respond in a manner that would address all the issues. I did want to say though to this comment of yours....of looking at the Scriptures objectively and not through the prism of Calvinism.

I was not raised in a Christian home, I have no background or bias from that.
I was in university working on my Bachelor of Science when I met some real Christians. For many months I attended gospel meetings, church services, activities ...realizing that I was on my way to hell. I was saved at a gospel meeting, in fact. The good folks were Plymouth Brethern and not Reformed by any stretch of the imagination. All I knew was that Jesus Christ died for me, I trusted in Him and was saved. It was a number of months, I would say almost a year after I was saved that the Spirit used my Bible reading and seeking after Him, to allow me to see the Doctrines of Grace. I did not know that is what they were called, I just saw the teachings clearly laid out in Scripture. I even remember one day, sitting in church and realizing what it meant. What predestination meant and I started to cry with concern for my own parents. What if they were not elect?

Sorry for babbling...I just tell that story so you know a little bit of where I am coming from too.

 

The problem is you misrepresent the Bible, the Calvinist view and the views of anyone who disagrees with Calvinism.

Faith comes from the word of the Lord.

I committed to Jesus when I was 15 years old.

If our faith was a good work, then it would be righteous. But since all our works of righteousness are filthy rags, it is not righteous, nor anything of merit, it is worthless. I have explained this to you more than a dozen times, yet you keep repeating your questions, like a broken record.

My view of the fall is biblical, the Calvinist view is unbiblical. They change the meaning of words, rewriting scripture to pour their manmade doctrine into the text.

And I am still waiting for you to explain, if our sins were taken away when Christ died 2000 years ago, why when we were conceived, were we by nature children of wrath?

 

Soooooo, how many years ago did you toss all your bibles out of the window?

 

Calvinism is unbiblical, you did not find it in scripture, it must be read into scripture by redefining the meaning of words, like changing predestined into called.

I have shown you that scripture says we were chosen for salvation through faith in the truth. You seem to respond, but that cannot be true in light of all the other Calvinist truths. But most of them are untrue too. For example Christ died for the unsaved, 2 Peter 2:1. Somehow you did not find this verse in scripture, but found some verse you cannot quite recall that says Christ died "only" for the church. But if He died for all mankind, then that would include the church. Thus, again it is not either/or, it is both.

 

You need to go find those bibles you tossed out your window, lo, many years ago....

 

Please, go search for them, PRONTO......

 

That's interesting, because the Spirit used my Bible reading and seeking after Him to allow me to see the Doctrines of Grace which oppose Calvin's. Now what do we do???

 

And not only your parents God may have chosen to let burn in hell, but also your children, nieces and nephews, siblings.....all of these may be on God's hate list.

As a Calvinist brother has said......

...the sad reality of the Calvinism god.

 

Hi Convicted, I see you still like to make charges devoid of evidence.

My bible says God chose folks for salvation from the beginning through faith in the truth. Yours, I know, says something else.

My Bible says we are called, then chosen. Yours, I know, says something else.

My Bible says unregenerate men were entering heaven, until they were blocked by false teachers. Yours, I know says something else.

My bible says Christ died for all, but I know yours says something else.

And I have not forgotten my question, how could we be by nature children of wrath, if, as Calvinism claims, our sins including our future sins had been washed away?

 

Well, I am happy to report that my parents are both Christians now! =)
I am also pleased to report that I find comfort and total peace in knowing that God is in control and that all those He chose before the foundation of the world, whether in my family or not...will be saved. I would much rather it be left in the hands of the God of the universe than in my own weak hands of chipped and cracked clay.

 

The only Doctrines of Grace are the ones which are found in the Scriptures and they are Reformed in their nature.

We should both continue to seek God, ask Him to give us clarity of mind, pray that He conforms us more and more into the image of His son, and ask Him to help us have sound doctrine so that we might glorify Him more in our lives.

I am not your adversary.

 

You have shown me nothing. Your interpretation of that Scripture is wrong. We can pull a number of verses out, look at them side by side, comparing them. Prayerfully looking at what the Scriptures are saying themselves, then we will get somewhere. I just do not want to go back and forth saying what we believe, without any Scriptural support...that is an exercise in futility. You keep telling me what I believe but I do not think you really understand what I believe, because you are misrepresenting it.

 

Your "my bible" has typos if that's what you read...either that or your glasses need cleaned...:thumbs:

 

Wanna bet??? :thumbsup:

He baits people into his debates...

 

Did anyone, maybe even yourself, have anything to do with God bringing your parents to Christ? That would be God using weak and chipped clay, or on other words, human beings playing a role in the salvation plan of God. What if all Christians from this point forward decided they would not preach Jesus Christ anymore, would it matter? According to Calvinism, God would save those chosen anyways, so why bother to pray and cry for you lost loved ones?

 

I believe what you mean is I hold people accountable for the doctrines they choose to preach and show them the reality of the positions they take. The end conclusion of Calvinism is that God hates most people.

 

You know, even as I typed that, I said....someone is going to pull that hyper calvinism card. lol

Of course He used me, I am honoured that He did. But HE chose them, He called them in His time, He regenerated them, He converted them, they responded according to their new nature and accepted Christ & repented of their sin, He justified them, He sanctified them and continues to do so. Praise His Holy Name!!

Anyone who stops preaching the gospel and giving the general call of the gospel is living in defiance against the great commission. One of my most favourite verses is:
2 Corinthians 5:20
"Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God."
We are told to preach, we are told to pray...so best do what we are told.

 

I actually think the most astonishing thing is that He loves any of us!

 

And yet salvation is still ALL of God, correct? Even though you chose to preach to them and THEN God acted.

 

Or else what? The elect are the elect, matters not what we do, correct?