DEGREES of Sin

[DHK]

Originally posted by Brother Bob:

DHK; You say sin is transgession of the Law. Which Law are you talking about?

Whatever the law is.
If the law that you break is the posted speed limit, and you have transgressed that law, then it is sin. Sin is a transgression of the law. Keep in mind that God ordained the laws of the government as well (Rom.13:1-5). I am sure you can figure the rest out.

I don't agree with DHK either that going 10miles over speed limit is same as going 100 miles over. Have you ever paid the ticket for each? I bet you change your mind quick. I also doubt if the Lord watches our speed meters in our cars anyway.

I haven't but I know someone who has.
They are the same sin. Only the consequence is different. That is the same with all sin. Tell a lie to your wife or murder her. The consequence of the sin is different. But it is the same as God is concerned. You broke the law. You transgessed his law. If you break one law, you are just as guilty as if you break every one of his laws. The very fact that you even question this shows one's own self-righteousness, a sin that God despisies.
Christ diid not come to call the righteous to repentance but sinners. What does that verse mean?
DHK

 

[DeafPosttrib]

I would like to discuss about sin.

We all cannot be expecting that we must be perfect without commit sin all day or all week. Because we all are human. We already received sin comes from Adam according to Romans 5:12.

Apostle Paul said, he wishes, want to be perfect and without have sin, but sin already dwell in him according Romans 7:17 - "Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me." He said, he desires want to do holy without sin, but sin still dwell within his body 24 hours. And Romans 7:20 says the same thing.

Many baptists believe we are saved by the grace, so we don't have to be worry about salvation, long we still commit sins throughout our life till death, then go to heaven.

But, in Romans 6:1-2 says, "What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? God FORBID. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?"

It tells us, we do not continue sinning while under the grace same time. God commands us to be holy, because He is holy (1 Peter 1:15-16).

Myself was used to believe in security salvation doctrine for many years. I left security salvation doctrine about three years ago, because Bible shows me, there are lot of conditional with warnings.

Romans 6:3-5 telling us, that many of us were baptized into Jesus Christ, our sins buried with Christ. This is not speak of physical water baptism, but received Jesus Christ with the Holy Spirit after we repented of sins. When we heard the gospel, believed, repented of sins, ask Christ, and accept Him to be saved. That means, we have to buried sins away far in the sea or in the ground, and serve sins NO MORE.

Look next verse - Romans 6:6 says, "Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him(Christ), that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth, WE SHOULD NOT SERVE SIN." It tells us, our sins put on Christ through the cross, and Christ buried with our sins, shows that our sins are destroyed by Jesus Christ. SO, we do not serve sin again no more. Obivously, it teaches us, we ought to be repent of our life and to follow Christ to be holy life daily.

I don't have to explaining you through whole chapter 6 of Romans. I suggest that you better read through whole chapter 6 yourself.

Securists' bad habit pick Romans 6:23 out of the context of chapter 6, what the whole context is talking about. Because, they use this verse for soul winning method to witness people.

I like Romans 6:23 is a beautiful verse. It tells us, collecting sins to be piling up like as reaping them is DEATH-everlasting punishment in hell/lake of fire. Then the last part verse 23- "BUT" , it shows speak of the good news. God gives the gift to us through Jesus Christ our Lord. My understanding of Romans 6:23b telling us, God sent His Son to earth to died on the cross show of His love, that is a good news. This verse do nothing with security salvation. Calvary is all about GOOD NEWS.

When once after we believed and received Christ through repent of sins, then, we do NOT serve sins anymore afterward!

My understanding of "continue in sin", "not serve sin", both telling us, we do not STAY in our old ways all the way throughout our life all the times. It commands us, that we must stop sinning.

Romans 8:6-7 "For TO BE CARNALLY MINED IS DEATH; BUT TO BE SPIRITUALLY MINDED IS LIFE AND PEACE. Because the carnal mind is ENMITY AGAINST GOD: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

This passage is speaking toward us as believers AFTER our salvation during in our lifetime, that we do not be continue doing wicked things, we are commanded to be holy life throughout our life right now till we die.

I don't have to explaining whole chapter 8 of Romans to you. I suggest that you better read through whole chapter 7 yourself.

Important verse 13 of chapter 8 says, "For IF ye live after the flesh, ye SHALL DIE: but IF ye through the Spirit DO mortify the deeds of the body, YE SHALL LIVE."

This verse telling us, what we should do right now in our life AFTER our salvation. It warns us, if we walk AFTER flesh, then shall lead us to DEATH(spiritual, NOT physical). Death of what? Everlasting punishment in hell/lake fire.

That why God commands us, we do not continue sinning, we must walk in the light daily, because He is holy.

James 1:14-15 warn, "But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. Then when lust hath conceived, it BRINGETH FORTH SIN: AND SIN, WHEN IT IS FINISHED, BRINGETH FORTH DEATH." It speaks of if we stay with lust and continuing with it all the way throughout our life to death. Notice it says, "when it is finished", my understanding of it is speak of by the time we die(physical). THEN, it says, "bringeth forth DEATH." It speaks of our spiritual death is spend in everlasting fire.

That why next verse 16 says, "DO NOT ERR, My BRETHREN." Apostle James warn of verse 14-16 is speaking toward us as believers, not unbelievers.

We cannot be expecting that we are 100% perfect life without commit a sin all day or throughout all week. We commited sins many times during daytime and nighttime. We easly make mistakes. Should we continue with sins all the times? NO! Of course, we are all humans. So, in 1 John 1:9 commands us, that we ought to confess our sins to Jesus Christ, so, He always faithful to forgive us 24 hours daily.

OR.....what if we do not confess our sins to Christ for a long time, Christ would NOT still forgive our currently sins unless TILL we confess to Christ first.

That why, so many Christians who believe in security salvation doctrine. They thought they are already saved at once so called, 'Once Saved Always Saved'. They don't have to be worry about their salvation, long as they are still saved till their death then go to heaven. Even, they still sinning all the times while backslidding same time STILL THINK they are already saved.


It is a dangerous doctrine. Sorry to saying to you.

Bible commands us REPENT! Or...preish(everlasting punishment in hell/lake of fire.

I would like to add something to discuss with you on matter of our practical Christian living.

If suppose, a Christian did actual already confess sins to Christ often. Then, next day, a Christian not yet confess sin to Christ, when a Christian doing wrong thing- for exaample: a Christian steals money from a person at the store, then walk into the car, and drive. Then, suddenly another car hit Christian's car, and Christian died without confess of this sin(steal). Is a Christian go to hell for failed to confess a sin(steal) to Christ by the time got killed by accident, is now in hell???

No. I do not believe a Christian failed to confess sin to Christ of that day which commited, and then suddenly got killed same day. Because of this Christian already practical Christian life, and already did confess sins to Christ many times for a long time before the day got killed.

Another a GOOD QUESTION.


Suppose a Christian did actual walking with the Lord, attending church services faithfully. One day, a Christian decides do commit suicide. Is a Christian in hell?

Yes. Go ahead you might not agree with me.

Several years ago, I heard a sad news, a baptist pastor died from commit suicide by shot in his mouth in the bathroom at the church. I fear that pastor is now in hell.

Why? Because I believe, he was quit and give up fed up with his life, mean he didn't finish the race(Hebrews 12:1-2), and not even make it into the narrow gate (Matt. 7:13-14). He was not looked up at Christ, he looked down himself as negative. No question, he is now in hell.

I consider, a Christian, who do commit suicide is DANGER of soul, it would lead to the final conclusion being end up in hell.

I urge you all, PLEASE DO NOT THINK about planning suicide. I do depress many times. But, I won't think of plan do suicide. I have to LOOK UP at Christ all the times!

That mean, we have to be endure all the way to end then shall be saved - Matt. 10:22 & 24:13. Then, we shall be victory and have eternal life. That why we are in spiritual warfare right now. We must endure throughout our life till we die then we will be victory.

Being commited suicide is DANGER!!!! Don't ever think about it!

In Christ
Rev. 22:20 -Amen!

 

[Hope of Glory]

So, what's the magic line above which we're saved adn below which we are not?

 

[Claudia_T]

Its called love and loyalty to God. But at the same time never relying upon your own merit. Its extremely simple. No rebels in Heaven. No self righteousness in Heaven.

 

[Heavenly Pilgrim]

Deafposttrib: We already received sin comes from Adam according to Romans 5:12.

HP: Ro 5:12 Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:

Reading this verse I see a great discrepancy between what you say the verse says, and what it actually states. First, it does not say that we receive sin from Adam, it states clearly that sin entered the world by Adam, and that “DEATH”, not sin, passed upon all men. If we read the last part of the verse it explains why all men have sin added to their account. Does it say because we got it from Adam? No. It says because “all have sinned.”

 

[xdisciplex]

It tells us, we do not continue sinning while under the grace same time. God commands us to be holy, because He is holy (1 Peter 1:15-16).

But the bible also says that we will also sin as christians, how does this fit together?

 

[billwald]

Again, why did the Mosiac Law provide various punishments and not one punishment for sinning?

Maybe St Paul got it wrong.

 

[xcel22]

I've always learned that there are no "degrees of sin."
James 2:10 "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

Someone pointed out that Jesus describes a sin as being greater
John 19:11 "Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."

any thoughts?

 

[Mary Diana Lynn Harper]

Sin is Sin is Sin. Living in the flesh we all fall short of the Glory God wants to give us. Remember when Jesus wrote in the ground with His finger when they wanted to stone the adultress? He said "Let him who has not sinned cast the first stone." That has to tell you something. Even while Jesus was here with us, I believe that Jesus when He overturned the tables of the moneychangers in the church, He felt anger , the Bible calls it zeal for God, His Father. It had to have overwhelmed him, Jesus. That had to be so hard for God to watch His Son get angry. The flesh is sin and we were concieved in sin [anger is sin] He was of the flesh and He knew that. So while we are in the flesh unless we stay in the Word and in God we sin. We may believe we do not mean to sin but we do. I am so glad we have a forgiving Father and a meadeator for our sins. Chirst Jesus. AMEN

 

[DHK]

Originally posted by xcel22:
I've always learned that there are no "degrees of sin."
James 2:10 "For whoever keeps the whole law and yet stumbles at one point is guilty of breaking all of it."

Someone pointed out that Jesus describes a sin as being greater
John 19:11 "Therefore the one who handed me over to you is guilty of a greater sin."

any thoughts?

Welcome to the BB xcel22. Trust your stay here will be informative and a time of good fellowship.

Sin is sin. iJohn 3:4 states that sin is a transgression of the law, which makes all sin equal--transgressing the law.
However we know that the consequence of sin is different: some greater than others. The Lord made that very evident in the Old Testament as attached different penalties to different sins.

Even in eternity I believe that there are degrees of punishment in Hell. Consider what the Bible teaches on this aspiect:

Matthew 11:23-24 And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.
--In the Day of Judgement (Great White Throne Judgement), the final sentencing of the unsaved, Christ says that it will be more tolerable for some in that lake of fire than for others. It will be more tolerable for the wicked homosexuals of Sodom and Gomorrah than it will be for the inhabitants of Capernaum. Those where his words.
How could it be more tolerable in the lake of fire for some people more so than others? We are not told how, but we are told that it will be. We must take God's Word at face value to be true. We believe it by faith.
The reason that the inhabitants of Capernaum would receive a greater punishment is because of their unbelief. They say the mirackes of Jesus. They heard his words. They saw God incarnate in the flesh. They saw Christ, the Messiah, and yet they rejected him. This is the greatest sin man could commit. Jesus could do no more miracles in Capernaum because of their unbelief. Their hearts were that hardened.
Thus he says that if the inhabitants of Sodom and Gomorrah had seen and heard the things that they had witnessed they would have repented long ago. It was a terrible, terrible sin of unbelief that they were committing, and they would pay dearly for it at the final sentence at the Great White Throne White Judgement. There are degrees of punishment in Hell. There are not really degrees of sin, for all sin is a transgression is of the law. But there is a different consequence to the sin committed. I hope that makes sense to you.
DHK

 

[D28guy]

Claudia,

"well I dont think Hitler would get the same punishment as someone who ran a red light"

If both were lost they would be in the same hell

If both were saved they would be in the same heaven.

The difference...if in heaven...would be in the difference regarding "rewards" or "loss of rewards".

Mike

 

[Eric B]

Originally posted by DeafPosttrib:

My understanding of "continue in sin", "not serve sin", both telling us, we do not STAY in our old ways all the way throughout our life all the times. It commands us, that we must stop sinning.

Romans 8:6-7 "For TO BE CARNALLY MINED IS DEATH; BUT TO BE SPIRITUALLY MINDED IS LIFE AND PEACE. Because the carnal mind is ENMITY AGAINST GOD: for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed can be."

This passage is speaking toward us as believers AFTER our salvation during in our lifetime, that we do not be continue doing wicked things, we are commanded to be holy life throughout our life right now till we die.

Important verse 13 of chapter 8 says, "For IF ye live after the flesh, ye SHALL DIE: but IF ye through the Spirit DO mortify the deeds of the body, YE SHALL LIVE."

This verse telling us, what we should do right now in our life AFTER our salvation. It warns us, if we walk AFTER flesh, then shall lead us to DEATH(spiritual, NOT physical). Death of what? Everlasting punishment in hell/lake fire.

That why God commands us, we do not continue sinning, we must walk in the light daily, because He is holy.

Actually, in that context, "flesh" refers to the dependance on the Law coupled with physical inheritance instead of the grace of Christ that many people had then. That too is "of the flesh" just as much as indulging in any "sins", because that is what directly cuts you off from the means of salvation, leaving you where else, but "in the flesh".

 

[Brother Bob]

DHK;
I haven't but I know someone who has.
They are the same sin. Only the consequence is different. That is the same with all sin. Tell a lie to your wife or murder her. The consequence of the sin is different. But it is the same as God is concerned. You broke the law. You transgessed his law. If you break one law, you are just as guilty as if you break every one of his laws.

(The conquences are different from whom?)

The very fact that you even question this shows one's own self-righteousness, a sin that God despisies.
Christ did not come to call the righteous to repentance but sinners. What does that verse mean?
DHK

(Seems to me it is like the Prodical son and his brother. The father didn't keep looking for the older son for he was home it was the lost. Is that ok?)


So because I think going 10 miles over speed limit is different than going 100 miles over speed limit is "self-righteous". Jeepers seems to me a statement like that is what is "self-righteous". If I tell a lie to my wife or murder her is the same. Both would be breaking the Law and be sin but you said Keep in mind that God ordained the laws of the government as well (Rom.13:1-5). I am sure you can figure the rest out. Well they passed some executive Laws to go over and kill a bunch of Iraqs "doubt if God ordained it". Just my thoughts on the matter though. Also, if it came up before the church that one of the members had killed someone and another one had told false, I think I would deal with it differently. You thoughts?

Blessings,

BBob

 

[DHK]

The difference Bob, is how God sees sin, compared to how man sees sin. God sees sin as all the same--a transgression of the law (1John 3:4). It doesn't matter if it is a lie or murder, one sin (big or little) is enouch to condemn a person to hell. If a man commits one sin he is just as guilty as if he has broken the whole law (in God's sight).

John 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
--For one sin (especially that of unbelief) the wrath of God continues always to abide on man.
There are no degrees of sin with God. All sin is a transgression of the law. All sin condemns.

However all sin is not the same as far as man perceives it. There certainly are degrees of sin as far as man looks upon sin. And it is God that ordained it to be so. God gave man a justice system in which vatious penalties of various degrees were attached to differents sins according to the degree of sin committed. Obviously the sim of murder required a much stiffer penalty than that of lying. Crimes and various penalties attached are all given in the Book of Exodus, as well as in our modern day Justice System, which we are bound to obey.

But that is not what this discussion is revolving around. It is how God views sin. Is all sin equal in the eyes of God? Are there degrees of sin in the eyes of God. I would say no, simply becuase sin is a transgression of the law no matter what sin is. However, there is a consequence to sin, even God's sin--some greater than others.
DHK

 

[Brother Bob]

I certainly agree if you break one Commandment you are guilty of all but think it means the Ten. If we go farther back than that we will get into worshiping God as they did under the law Covenant.