Demon possession

[OldRegular]

One thing I have learned from discussion with people who believe in demon possession is that they cannot be reasoned with.

 

[Allan]

One thing I have learned from discussion with people who believe in demon possession is that they cannot be reasoned with.

:laugh: I love it! He uses this line when people don't agree with him, and that is most of the time :laugh: I love it!

 

[Allan]

I do think sometimes there is, however, a haste to call someone possessed before all the facts are assessed.

Marcia, I couldn't agree more. Well put.

 

[annsni]

I know in our church, it is most likely after many months of counseling before we possibly think that it can be demon possession unless something is really in-your-face that makes us decide it's that right away.

 

[OldRegular]

:laugh: I love it! He uses this line when people don't agree with him, and that is most of the time :laugh: I love it!

Glad I finally posted something you agree with.:smilewinkgrin: I could have included dispensationalists in the post also.:smilewinkgrin:

 

[saturneptune]

Glad I finally posted something you agree with.:smilewinkgrin: I could have included dispensationalists in the post also.:smilewinkgrin:

I am not 100% sure, but I believe you are right about demon possession. There seems to be an inconsistency here. Most believe that the age of speaking in tongues has passed, and since demon possession is right in that same period, why would there be any difference?

 

[Allan]

I am not 100% sure, but I believe you are right about demon possession. There seems to be an inconsistency here. Most believe that the age of speaking in tongues has passed, and since demon possession is right in that same period, why would there be any difference?

Probably because demon possession was around before the NT gift of tongues were. Jesus cast them before the gift was even on scene as something given to the Church

 

[OldRegular]

I am not 100% sure, but I believe you are right about demon possession. There seems to be an inconsistency here. Most believe that the age of speaking in tongues has passed, and since demon possession is right in that same period, why would there be any difference?

I agree. We must remember that when Jesus Christ was crucified and resurrected the power of Satan was limited.

Hebrews 2:14. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

John 12:30. Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
John 12:31. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

1 John 3:8. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

 

[Allan]

I agree. We must remember that when Jesus Christ was crucified and resurrected the power of Satan was limited

Really? Funny how Paul and John call him the Prince of the power of the air and the god of this world. But declare power and authority of one over something.

Hebrews 2:14. Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

But he isn't destroyed yet.

John 12:30. Jesus answered and said, This voice came not because of me, but for your sakes.
John 12:31. Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.

I noticed you left off the preceding verse which gives context to what is being spoken of here.
That next verse is:

If I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me. Here observe two things

Matthew Henry states it concisely and thusly:

2.) That by the death of Christ souls should be converted, and this would be the casting out of Satan (v. 32): If I be lifted up from the earth, I will draw all men unto me. Here observe two things:—

Thus with regard to the Last days Paul says that things will only get worse and worse:

2Ti 3:13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived.

And that people will be give heed to seducing spirits, and will not listen to sound doctrine. Peter, Paul and John all say the same things. It will not get better but much worse, thus Satan isn't limited but is allowed a more free reign as the time of the last days (the end of them) approach. Paul even states that we wrestle against the authorities, against those mighty powers of darkness who rule this world, against the spiritual hosts of wickedness in the heavenly places.

[/quote]1 John 3:8. He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.[/QUOTE]
Exactly, this spefically and directly speaks of salvation to and in a person, and NOT refering to Satan being limited in relation to the world system and the ungodly.

 

[Dr. Timo]

Demon possession is a very real thing today. While demons can't possess a child of God they can possess lost folks. I know of many pastors who have dealt with demon possession in a very real way. The demon would talk of things only known in that time frame, that is much older than the person possessed.:thumbs:

 

[Kevin M]

I have believed in demon possesion for a while, but not like that which is portrayed in "The Exorist" movie. I am a believer that alcoholism, homosexuality, drug abuse, etc are "types" of demon possesion. I work at a hospital which has a floor that deals strictly with people who are troubled mentally, but having not known them before they came there, I don't know who, or what, triggered their change in their mentality. But, this is just one man's opinion.

Willis

[sarcasm] I am a believer that gluttony and picking your nose is a
type if demon possession. [/sarcasm].

 

[pinoybaptist]

[sarcasm] I am a believer that gluttony and picking your nose is a
type if demon possession. [/sarcasm].

Why the open sarcasm to a fellow child of God's post ?

Sarcasm is defined by the dictionary as:

Sar"casm\, n. [F. sarcasme, L. sarcasmus, Gr. sarkasmo`s, from sarka`zein to tear flesh like dogs, to bite the lips in rage, to speak bitterly, to sneer, fr. sa`rx, sa`rkos, flesh.] A keen, reproachful expression; a satirical remark uttered with some degree of scorn or contempt; a taunt; a gibe; a cutting jest.

The sarcasms of those critics who imagine our art to be a matter of inspiration. --Sir J. Reynolds.

Syn: Satire; irony; ridicule; taunt; gibe.


The Bible says "Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt, that ye may know how ye ought to answer every man." While in context, this refers to how we speak to those who do not know Christ, shouldn't it follow that we should be a little more gentle in our speech to those who do know and are known of Christ ?

 

[Bro. James]

It is no wonder, Satan himself is become an angel of light. He is the master of deception with wolves dressed like sheep. If it were possible, The Elect would be deceived. Satan is alive and well on planet earth; his angels are legion.

Yes, Satan's demise has been sealed. He knows his end is near. He is redoubling efforts to nullify God's Grace through Jesus. Satan cannot win.

Has Satan had a part in the martyring of the Saints for the past two thousand years?

Rejoice when you get killed for Him.

We have no idea what persecution might be.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[OldRegular]

Really? Funny how Paul and John call him the Prince of the power of the air and the god of this world. But declare power and authority of one over something.

Believe what you want Allan but God is Sovereign over His creation and has always been. I draw your attention to the words of Jesus Christ:

Matthew 28:
16. Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

 

[Marcia]

...There seems to be an inconsistency here. Most believe that the age of speaking in tongues has passed, and since demon possession is right in that same period, why would there be any difference?

I don't see the inconsistency at all. There is no connection between the two.

 

[Allan]

Believe what you want Allan but God is Sovereign over His creation and has always been. I draw your attention to the words of Jesus Christ:

Matthew 28:
16. Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Of course God is soveriegn over all His creation, who said otherwise. No one.
But what you just quoted would state that God was not soveriegn for a period of time because Jesus states the 'all power' was given to Him 'after' the resurrection.

God is soveriegn and still allow others to have authority or will. Satans authority has never been separate from the controlling or setting of bounds by God but God has given him the authority to do and will within the constraints set by God.

 

[OldRegular]

But what you just quoted would state that God was not soveriegn for a period of time because Jesus states the 'all power' was given to Him 'after' the resurrection.

Only you could draw the conclusion that the statement of Jesus Christ implies there was a time when God was not sovereign. Jesus did not say that all power was given to Him after His resurrection. He simply made the statement after his resurrection. He had previously told His disciples: John10:30. I and my Father are one.

Using your irrational thinking one could conclude that Jesus Christ was not divine until after His resurrection.

 

[OldRegular]

But what you just quoted would state that God was not soveriegn for a period of time because Jesus states the 'all power' was given to Him 'after' the resurrection.

Allan

You are free to misquote me but don't misquote the Bible.

Matthew 28:
16. Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Only you could draw the conclusion that the statement of Jesus Christ implies there was a time when God was not sovereign. Jesus did not say that all power was given to Him after His resurrection. He simply made the statement after his resurrection. He had previously told His disciples: John10:30. I and my Father are one.

Using your irrational thinking one could conclude that Jesus Christ was not divine until after His resurrection. I trust that you don't???

 

[Allan]

Allan

You are free to misquote me but don't misquote the Bible.

Matthew 28:
16. Then the eleven disciples went away into Galilee, into a mountain where Jesus had appointed them.
17. And when they saw him, they worshipped him: but some doubted.
18. And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
20. Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.

Only you could draw the conclusion that the statement of Jesus Christ implies there was a time when God was not sovereign. Jesus did not say that all power was given to Him after His resurrection. He simply made the statement after his resurrection. He had previously told His disciples: John10:30. I and my Father are one.

Using your irrational thinking one could conclude that Jesus Christ was not divine until after His resurrection. I trust that you don't???

I was using it to illistrate a point in that you said God was sovereign over His creation and then quoted Jesus saying about all power. I did not state it because I believed it. Regardless I will still clarify for you - Jesus was always divine but being divine does not mean He did not set aside or supress aspects of His divinity when He became a man.

The issue was to you said God was always sovereign (no question) but you used Jesus statement after the resurrection to make you point about 'always being sovereign over His creation. Did Jesus while here (before His death and Resurrection) have 'all power both in heaven and earth'? If so then why does He state that all power 'is given to Him'?

He was still God but he did not walk in that soveriegn power as a man, He set that aspect aside and thus He obeyed the Will of the Father and was submissive (obeidient) even unto death. When one is sovereign one is not subordinate, and a sovereign one demands obedience but Himself does not give obedience. The "given" actually refers to 'taking back up' that power/authority which He had. He has the authority of Himself to send them out now that He has fulfilled His purpose and has been exhaulted above all things.

 

[OldRegular]

Allan

You obviously do not understand what occurred in God's purpose in the Salvation of His elect and the Incarnation. You may learn something by carefully studying the following:

The Baptist Confession of Faith of 1677[Lumpkin Baptist Cobnfessions, page 259], which was not signed until 1689 and is sometimes referred to by that date, defines the Covenant of Grace as follows:

“The distance between God and the creature is so great that, although reasonable creatures do owe obedience unto Him as their Creator, yet they could never have attained the reward of life but by some voluntary condescension on God’s part [Luke 17:7-10; Job 35:7,8] which He hath been pleased to express, by way of Covenant.

Moreover man, having brought himself under the curse of the law by his fall [Genesis 2:17; Galatians 3:10; Romans 3:20, 21], it pleased the Lord to make a Covenant of Grace wherein He freely offereth unto sinners life and salvation by Jesus Christ, requiring of them faith in Him, that they may be saved [Romans 8:3; Mark 16:15, 16; John 3:16]; and promising to give unto all those that they ordained unto eternal life, His Holy Spirit to make them willing and able to believe [Ezekiel 36:26, 27; John 6:44, 45; Psalm 110:3].

This Covenant is revealed in the Gospel; first of all to Adam in the promise of salvation by the seed of woman [Genesis 3:15], and afterwards by further steps until the full discovery thereof was completed in the New Testament [Hebrews 1:1]; and it is founded in that eternal Covenant transaction [2 Timothy 1:9; Titus 1:2] that was between the Father and the Son about the redemption of the elect; and it is alone by the grace of this Covenant that all of the posterity of fallen Adam that ever were saved [Hebrews 11:6, 13; Romans 4:1, 2; Acts 4:12; John 8: 56] did obtain life and a blessed immortality; man being utterly uncapable of acceptance with God upon those terms on which Adam stood in his state of innocency.”

Following is an excerpt from J. L. Dagg [a prominent Southern Baptist of the 19th century] in his Manual of Theology [pages 253-257] as he expands on the above Confession of Faith, as follows:

"According to the covenant arrangement, the Son appeared in human nature, in the form of a, servant; and, after obeying unto death, was exalted by the Father to supreme dominion. The Holy Spirit also is revealed as acting in a subordinate office, being sent by the Father and by the Son. The Father alone is not presented as acting in a subordinate office; but appears as sustaining the full authority of the Godhead, sending the Son, giving him a people to be redeemed, prescribing the terms, accepting the service, rewarding and glorifying the Son, and sending the Holy Spirit. In all this the Father appears as the representative of the Godhead, in its authority and majesty. The Son also sustains a representative character. The promise of eternal life was made, before the world began, to the people of God, in him as their representative. The reconciliation between God and men is provided for by the covenant engagement between the Father and the Son; the Father acting as the representative of the Godhead, and the Son as the representative and surety of his people. The Holy Spirit concurs in this arrangement, and takes his part in the work, in harmony with the other persons of the Godhead. His peculiar office is necessary to complete the plan, and to reward the obedience of the Son by the salvation of his redeemed people. The promises of the Father to the Son include the gift of the Holy Spirit; and, therefore, the sending of the Spirit is attributed to the Son; [John 16:7] and sometimes to the Father at the petition of the Son.[John 14:16]

In this order of operation, inferiority of nature is not implied, in the subordination of office to which the Son and the Spirit voluntarily consent. The fulness of the Godhead dwells in each of the divine persons, and renders the fulfillment of the covenant infallibly sure, in all its stipulations. The Holy Spirit, in the execution of his office, dwells in believers; but he brings with him the fulness of the Godhead, so that God is in them, and they are the temple of God, and filled with the fulness of God. The Son or Word, in the execution of his office, becomes the man Jesus Christ; but the fulness of the Godhead dwells in him; so that, in his deepest humiliation he is God manifest in the flesh, God over all, blessed for ever. "