Demons and demon possession

[Reynolds]

That's kind of a cop out. What specifically do you see in possessed people that convinces you a demon is responsible ?

Not a cop out at all. You asked for an impossibility. Evidence, I can give you.
Proof, I can't.
Knowing things that they have no way of knowing. One of the two I mentioned just floored me. He, in an attempt to scare me and side track what was going on, brought up one of my past sins. It was a sin that no person knew about. The sin had been repented of and turned away from, it was no longer an issue, but he had absolutely no way of knowing about it. His information was not generic, it was specific.
What would you say was wrong with the demonic case of the palsey that Jesus cured by casting out a devil? The man possessed by the legion?
Why were we told "we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, powers, rulers of the darkness of this world, and against spiritual wickedness in heavenly places."?

 

[Reynolds]

Ok. They were part of the establishment of the church age and serve no further purpose.

So when did demon possession stop?
When did demon oppression stop?
Where are demons now? What are they doing?

 

[Bro. Curtis]

You answer my question first. What exactly is it that you have seen that only a demon could do ?

 

[Reynolds]

You answer my question first. What exactly is it that you have seen that only a demon could do ?

I answered it. Re read my post if you missed the answer.

It is beyond doubt proven in scripture that demon possession existed. In logical argument, it would be up to you to prove it ceased or at least provide compelling evidence that it ceased.

 

[RedemptionAddiction]

I've participated in exorcisms. Very real, and very similar to the biblical accounts including foaming at the mouth, giving their names, and talking about unwillingness to leave in the third person.

To the original question about how you can know for certain if you are dealing with an evil spirit, spend time in prayer and speaking in tongues (if you do). The Holy Spirit knows all things and He'll show you. It's really that simple.

My apologies if I'm not allowed to talk about tongues under a site named "baptistboard.com" forgive me. It's been years since I've been on here and can't recall what the rules are.

Hope that helps!

 

[PrmtvBptst1832]

Demons possessed individuals when Jesus walked the earth, and we are living in the same age in which he lived strictly speaking. I suppose my answer would be, "Yes."

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I answered it. Re read my post if you missed the answer.

It is beyond doubt proven in scripture that demon possession existed. In logical argument, it would be up to you to prove it ceased or at least provide compelling evidence that it ceased.

Already did. And I'm not going to go any further.

 

[Happy]

Demon possession possible?

In the most simplest terms yes. By that I mean ~

We are natural born creatures ie our first birth that is applicable to every human that has been born alive, on this earth.

We have two choices;

Become born again - which in it's simplest term is to receive the Spirit of God within us - which in it's simplest term is to GIVE, allow, authorize God to have complete possession of our WHOLE being (body, soul and spirit).

The second choice is to DENY, refuse, NOT GIVE, allow nor authorize God to have complete possession of our WHOLE being.

The second choice has a "caveat". Meaning, it is a "by default choice". Meaning, "IF" a human does not "Give, allow, authorize God" to have complete possession of our WHOLE being, BY DEFAULT, we are electing the second choice, which is Denying, refusing, Not giving, Not allowing, Not authorizing God to have complete possession of our WHOLE being.

Thus the question remains, IF it is not God who is given possession of our whole being, THEN WHAT is "by default" now in opportunity to the possession of our being?

And aside from the "default" caveat ~ IS there an option FOR a human to outright Give, allow, authorize, SOMETHING other than God to have possession of their being? Yes.

In either case it is the intermingling of a human WITH a spirit and spirit WITH a human.

So HOW would another human KNOW, which spirit intermingles with an other human?

Scripture tells us -
We are all naturally born in sin ~ Sin is that which Stands Against God, resulting in the separation of us from God.
God has provided us a WAY "to" become forgiven and cleansed of our separation from God and reconciled unto God.
"IF" we choose such path/way/option; it is Gods Spirit that shall possess us.
"IF" we choose to submit to Satan's spirit; it is Satan's spirit that shall posses us.
"IF" during our natural life-time, we make no choice, by default, we give up our option to CHOOSE Gods Spirit to possess us.

So, we know who is "possessed" by which spirit/Spirit, by our own confession of the truth in our hearts, that God "knows" and for humans to know, it is expelled, ie spoken, out of our mouth.

And then there is the knowledge, that men are not privy to peek into a mans truth in an other's heart, and that men are LIARS. Thus, one man attempting to figure out which spirit another man IS subject to;
requires observation of the others mans "fruits"....ie speech and actions. And even then, at any point in a mans natural life time, such man has the option to submit unto Gods Spirit.

Meaning, what you may know of another man one day, may not be the same of what applies to him the next day.

The bottom line is ~ God is thee Eternal Spirit. Satan is a created spirit. Thus they are not opposites, however, either spirit can possess a man and man has an option of WHICH spirit shall possess him.

 

[AndyMartin]

The biggest lie that the devil has used to convince the majority, is, that he does not exist. Another lie is, that he is a "pussy cat", and not what the Bible says, "a roaring lion", who goes around "seeking whom he may devour", that is, "to swallow up, destroy". This is very serious! I am also convinced that he has conned many in the Church into believing that actual "demon possession" does not take place! This is yet another lie of his, who is the father of lies and deception! There is much evil spiritual activity in the world (and the Church) today, which wrongly as been ignored. Take the rise in very heinous crimes which are ever increasing around the world, like those carried out by the utterly demonic islamic state, which is controlled by the devil himself, who is the father of this extremely evil religion. Just because we in the "west" do not see much "evidence" of demonic possession, or activity, does not mean that it is from a bygone age. Don't let the enemy fool you! Even things like ADHD (Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder), which the world tries to explain away with some medical jargon, is caused by demonic influence, and no doubt in many cases, possession. We also have the rise of devil worship and people who are very much involved in the occult, which no doubt involves possession by evil spirits. I am not from any "Charismatic" or "Pentecostal" Church or background, but have attended a Pentecostal Church in London in the 1980's, where I saw first-hand what the devil is capable of doing, even to believers. The Bible warns us, that the fight that we are in, is "not against flesh and blood", but the forces of the devil, whose goal is to destroy everything that is from the Lord of the Holy Bible, including causing Christians to turn against the Lord, which sadly is also a reality in many countries.

 

[Baptist Believer]

There is no account of demon possession in scripture before the NT.

See 1 Samuel 16:14, 1 Kings 22:21, and the affliction of Job by the adversary.

There are no instructions left for us on how to cast out demons.

There is no formula or incantation. It is simply taking authority over the evil power and sending it away. We have examples throughout the Gospels and Acts. Humans do not do it by their own power, but by following the lead of the Spirit and doing it in the power of Jesus.

If anyone brags about it, you can be fairly sure that they don't know what they're talking about. It is about as glamorous as taking out the garbage. It is an exercise in humility and personal powerlessness.

Demon posession described today do not resemble the NT accounts.

Yes it does.

Saying that, I need to acknowledge that most of the well-known and popular accounts of demonization - especially from charismatic sources - DOES NOT resemble anything in the New Testament. I don't put much faith is those stories. But if you talk to missionaries and some pastors who have dealt with these things, they will confirm those realities. In our modern US non-charismatic culture, talking about demonization is an extremely unpopular topic. I actually have to teach about it in Sunday School tomorrow since I am teaching through Luke and we are in Luke 11. I am reluctant to do so because I know that at least one or two people are going to misunderstand in one direction or another.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

See 1 Samuel 16:14, 1 Kings 22:21, and the affliction of Job by the adversary.

I see no posession mentioned in either account. The first one the evil spirit torments him, no mention of posession. Second account mentions a persuasive spirit but not a possessive one.

 

[Baptist Believer]

There is much evil spiritual activity in the world (and the Church) today, which wrongly as been ignored. Take the rise in very heinous crimes which are ever increasing around the world, like those carried out by the utterly demonic islamic state, which is controlled by the devil himself, who is the father of this extremely evil religion.

As someone who is a student of history, I want to point out that the level of evil is about the same as it has always been. We have better reporting today and better technology to kill more people at once. ISIS is a throwback to the ancient ways of the Middle East where they attempt to destroy every trace of the cultures they oppose. That's why they have destroyed so many cultural relics. Mass executions are nothing new at all. From ancient days through today, huge numbers of people are killed for religious or political reasons.

Even things like ADHD (Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder), which the world tries to explain away with some medical jargon, is caused by demonic influence, and no doubt in many cases, possession.

YIKES! I disagree in the strongest possible way!

Unless the child is manifesting knowledge that he/she would have no way of knowing (the activities of someone at a great distance away, for instance), there are objects that move "by themselves" when that person is near, they suddenly being to speak in languages that they have never learned, or there are unusual physical/acoustical/visual phenomena associate with them (what is commonly thought of as poltergeist activity), they are almost certainly not under demonic influence.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I see no posession mentioned in either account. The first one the evil spirit torments him, no mention of posession. Second account mentions a persuasive spirit but not a possessive one.

Well, the word "possession" is a misnomer caused by multiple meanings of the word in the English language. It does not imply ownership, nor continual influence. If you notice, I use the term demonized, which is much closer to the meaning of the New Testament. It simply means that one is under the power of the demon.

By that definition, both Saul and the false prophets were demonized.

 

[Bro. Curtis]

I'll go with under pressure. I will not say a spirit was in control of their body. The only posessions in the OT I can think of is Balaam's donkey and later Balaam himself. But I see no demon posession like described in Christ's time at all.

I do appreciate your posts. The others are just kind of strengthening my resolve.

 

[FollowTheWay]

They were part of the church age. The church age began at Pentecost.

From this statement, I would assume that you are a Dispensationalist. Is that correct? Do you believe that the four Gospels are not relevant to us today?.

 

[FollowTheWay]

To follow up on my simple questions from yesterday, I would be interested in your biblical opinions, but am not looking for a debate.

I have encountered a situation in which a man has been diagnosed a bi-polar. He has some social adjustment problems, including violence, but seems to manage fairly well when he is working and taking his medication. The violence is usually associated with alcohol. One of his family members has decided he is possessed by a demon -- that this is the only explanation for his erratic behavior that can't seem to be resolved. The man has in the past professed faith in Christ, been baptized and joined a Baptist Church. But now he doubts his salvation, isn't sure he was ever saved, and not sure he has any hope of being saved.

Just putting that out there as some of the background for my opening host.

Any thoughts appreciated.

My perspective would be that the man suffers from clinical depression. I do believe that people can still be demon possessed although I tend to interpret that as attacked by Satan. Depression is an illness just like cancer. Medical science has found that our mental and emotional state can have an effect on other physical issues. Of course severe depression can also cause a person to doubt their beliefs in many areas or cause them to be paranoid seeing danger in situations where it is not logically present. The depression can certainly have an impact on this man's faith. Many people doubt their faith if they are diagnosed with a terminal illness or the death of a loved one. On the other hand, there might be no correlation between his illness and his loss of faith.

 

[Baptist Believer]

I'll go with under pressure. I will not say a spirit was in control of their body. The only posessions in the OT I can think of is Balaam's donkey and later Balaam himself. But I see no demon posession like described in Christ's time at all.

I think they issue may be that in the gospels, we see that Jesus has command of the demons like no one before him. Also, those who were demonized were revealed under the spiritual "pressure" of being in the presence of the Incarnate God. At that unique time when the powers of evil and the power of God were facing off in a small patch of land at the crossroads of the world, we are likely to see unusual things.

I do appreciate your posts.

Thank you. I get quite frustrated with most of the "demon" talk in the contemporary church. About 95% of the "knowledge" comes from popular culture or the weird errors of charismatic movement. Its hard to have a biblically-based conversation about these things that takes into account what we know about the world and the advances in medicine and science.

In my experience and the experience of other sober people in this area, most unusual behavior is mental illness. A small fraction of what is perceived to be mental illness has a demonic element to it. However, if someone is demonized, you can be quite confident they are also going to be suffering some mental confusion/trauma/illness because of it.

My rule for dealing with people who are seeking help "demonic possession" is to treat them as if they are mentally ill until the time that there is some demonic manifestation (like those explicit events described previously). They need to get help from medical professionals and I will walk with them on that journey of healing. If something arises, then we will deal with it.

My rule for dealing with people who I suspect are demonically oppressed or fully demonized (extremely rare) is to evangelize them. I introduce them to Jesus like I would anyone else. If something manifests (not just reject or anger, but some special event as described previously), I will address that issue in the process of evangelism.

I have evangelized a number of people who I know have been heavily involved in self-styled satanism and the occult, although none in the last decade.

And just to give some perspective, I haven't faced any explicit demonic manifestations since 1991, although I have done quite a bit of evangelism since that time. I definitely don't see demons everywhere I go.

 

[Reynolds]

I see no posession mentioned in either account. The first one the evil spirit torments him, no mention of posession. Second account mentions a persuasive spirit but not a possessive one.

The first is an account of demonic oppression.

 

[Reynolds]

From this statement, I would assume that you are a Dispensationalist. Is that correct? Do you believe that the four Gospels are not relevant to us today?.

I am. The Gospels are relevant for us today. You simply have to keep in mind that The Holy Spirit did not come in His fullness until Pentecost.

 

[FollowTheWay]

I am. The Gospels are relevant for us today. You simply have to keep in mind that The Holy Spirit did not come in His fullness until Pentecost.

I agree with that and that Pentecost was actually the first time even the disciples fully understood Jesus' message. They had been instructed to stay ion Jerusalem until the coming of the Holy Spirit. Sorry about miss-characterizing you. I've know some ultra-Dispensationalists that argued that the 4 gospels were only relevant for an earlier dispensation. I totally reject that view but also personally believe in Covenant Theology and that the First Covenant was intended by God to not be the final solution and was completely replaced by the Second Covenant under grace. I also believe that different books of the Bible need to be interpreted in different ways and that Revelation is largely symbolic. I don't accept the statement that the Jews will be dealt with any differently than anyone else at the Final Judgement nor do I place much significance on theologies emphasizing the Rapture or the Millennium. Jesus said:
Jhn 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
I believe in the literal translation of His statement and NO MAN means literally that which includes the Jews. But I also accept the Baptist statement of Priesthood of the Believer and respect different interpretations.