Denominational division

[JSM17]

Denominationalism is inherently and fundamentally wrong.
Jesus came to earth, fulfilled prophecy, performed miracles, established that he was the Messiah, died on the cross, was resurrected the third day, ascended back to the Father, and was received into glory. He promised to build His church (Mt. 16:18). On the day of Pentecoat, following His death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, the church came into being and three thousands obeyed the gospel on that day (Acts 2). You did not find on denomination located at this corner, and another denomination at that corner, in Jerusalem or elsewhere. Paul was not a Baptist preacher, and Barnabas a Methodist preacher, and Peter a Catholic priest (or pope).

There was one body and one faith (Eph. 4:4-6).


DARRON STEELE WROTE:

A decreasing number of church groups associate "denomination" with division.

More and more denominations are turning into simply associations of congregations.

To equate "denominations" with "divisions" is an antique left over from earlier centuries, when all but a few denominations were rivalrous factions. More and more Christians have moved on from the silly non-Scripture notion that unless we are doing everything nearly exactly alike on Sunday, we are to be aloof from each other or fight.

Denominationalism is division, its not about whether we do things the same way or that we agree about doing things the way we want to. It is about doing things the way God commanded us to do things.

As for "silly non-scripture notion"(s) scripture itself teaches us that division is wrong, that we are to be of one mind, this would pertain to doctrine, worship, and living.

Shall I start to show the essential issues that divide all the major denominations.

They divided because of important issues, they did not divide because one like this type of music and the other this one. They all divided because they could not agree on the three issues stated above.

All you have to do is study the denominations and their beliefs and you can see this.

 

[TCGreek]

This thread is nonsensical.

It is quite divisive.

It needs to close.

 

[DHK]

Shall I start to show the essential issues that divide all the major denominations.

No, but most every one else on this board can show how and why the COC is just as much a denomination as the RCC, even though they hate being called it, and will deny it to their dying breath.

 

[matt wade]

We need denominations so that we can tell who follows Biblical teachings and who follows heresy, such as baptism being needed for salvation.

 

[Stanedglass]

It is about doing things the way God commanded us to do things

Some would even argue that doing things the way God commanded is not even necessary.

We need denominations so that we can tell who follows Biblical teachings and who follows heresy, such as baptism being needed for salvation.

So Matt, please explain why that is heresy!

 

[DHK]

So Matt, please explain why that is heresy!

Perhaps you should explain why it isn't.

 

[Carico]

Denominationalism is inherently and fundamentally wrong.
Jesus came to earth, fulfilled prophecy, performed miracles, established that he was the Messiah, died on the cross, was resurrected the third day, ascended back to the Father, and was received into glory. He promised to build His church (Mt. 16:18). On the day of Pentecoat, following His death, burial, and resurrection of Christ, the church came into being and three thousands obeyed the gospel on that day (Acts 2). You did not find on denomination located at this corner, and another denomination at that corner, in Jerusalem or elsewhere. Paul was not a Baptist preacher, and Barnabas a Methodist preacher, and Peter a Catholic priest (or pope).

There was one body and one faith (Eph. 4:4-6).


DARRON STEELE WROTE:


Denominationalism is division, its not about whether we do things the same way or that we agree about doing things the way we want to. It is about doing things the way God commanded us to do things.

As for "silly non-scripture notion"(s) scripture itself teaches us that division is wrong, that we are to be of one mind, this would pertain to doctrine, worship, and living.

Shall I start to show the essential issues that divide all the major denominations.

They divided because of important issues, they did not divide because one like this type of music and the other this one. They all divided because they could not agree on the three issues stated above.

All you have to do is study the denominations and their beliefs and you can see this.

Denominationalism happens when people don't follow 1 Corinthians 3:1-6 and instead follow people like; Luther, Calvin, the pope, John Wesley, Joseph Smith, Charles Russel, etc. So you are correct. As that passage says; that's what causes divisions.

 

[Stanedglass]

Perhaps you should explain why it isn't.

Always diverting arn't we!

 

[matt wade]

So Matt, please explain why that is heresy!

This isn't the thread for me to explain why you will remain eternally separated from God if you believe that. This is the thread about denominational division, and I was just giving a reason for that division.

 

[Stanedglass]

I know where I stand, not sure where everyone else stands on this issue, but here's a question. Today, do we know more about the word of God than the people who wrote the Epistles or the people who wrote thier Gospels?

Who really cares what any denomination teaches or doesn't teach? Who really cares who Martin Luther, John Wesley, Pope John Paul, or any other reformer is?

The Word of God needs not to be reformed or denomonalized (is that a word). It's simple "...One Faith" Eph 4.

The Apostles were right! Anyone who strays away from that, regardless of what any council says, is a Heretic.

 

[matt wade]

Who really cares what any denomination teaches or doesn't teach?

Denominations are just a neat little way we can determine if a particular group of people believe what the Bible teaches, or if they believe something different. So, we should care what any denomination teaches or what they don't. To not care is to not care if the Bible is being accurately represented and taught.

 

[Stanedglass]

Denominations are just a neat little way we can determine if a particular group of people believe what the Bible teaches, or if they believe something different. So, we should care what any denomination teaches or what they don't. To not care is to not care if the Bible is being accurately represented and taught.

I think you should say " Denominations are just a neat little way we can determine if a praticular group of people believe what I believe!

We can call ourselves Baptist and believe we believe what the bible teaches but someone else may look at the sign and say "Baptist are wrong".

Wouldn't you agree?

 

[matt wade]

I think you should say " Denominations are just a neat little way we can determine if a praticular group of people believe what I believe!

We can call ourselves Baptist and believe we believe what the bible teaches but someone else may look at the sign and say "Baptist are wrong".

Wouldn't you agree?

Sure, that's correct and many Baptists are wrong. The are sub-denominations within the Baptists, just as there is for other denominations. Just because some person says that a particular denomination is wrong, however, doesn't mean it is true that they are wrong. Whether or not a denomination is correct in its beliefs can only be determined by comparing their beliefs to what is taught in the Bible.

 

[DHK]

The Apostles were right! Anyone who strays away from that, regardless of what any council says, is a Heretic.

The fact is that "baptismal regeneration" is a heresy. The apostles never believed it. It is not taught in the Bible. The only ones that did teach it were certain heretics and certain denominations. Therefore it does become a denominational belief, an errant one, one that is not biblical. If you believe that baptism is necessary for salvation you do not believe the same gospel that the apostles believed which is clearly set forth in 1Cor.15:1-4. You will note in those verses "the gospel by which you are saved" there is no baptism mentioned.

Eph.2:8,9 and Rom.5:1 also testify to the simplicity of the gospel without baptism as well as hundreds of other Bible passages.

Those who believe otherwise Paul says they believe another gospel (Gal.1:6-9). Then he says that those who bring that "other gospel" are accursed. That is a terrible position to be in.

 

[Carico]

The fact is that "baptismal regeneration" is a heresy. The apostles never believed it. It is not taught in the Bible. The only ones that did teach it were certain heretics and certain denominations. Therefore it does become a denominational belief, an errant one, one that is not biblical. If you believe that baptism is necessary for salvation you do not believe the same gospel that the apostles believed which is clearly set forth in 1Cor.15:1-4. You will note in those verses "the gospel by which you are saved" there is no baptism mentioned.

Eph.2:8,9 and Rom.5:1 also testify to the simplicity of the gospel without baptism as well as hundreds of other Bible passages.

Those who believe otherwise Paul says they believe another gospel (Gal.1:6-9). Then he says that those who bring that "other gospel" are accursed. That is a terrible position to be in.

Water baptism isn't what saves us. But nowhere in the bible does God tell us not to be baptized with water or that it's unnecessary.

 

[JSM17]

Some think this thread is nonsense and should be closed, but this is important. When it comes to salvation issues a majority of denominations have divided.

Lutherans teach that baptism (by sprinkling of babies and believing adults) "cleanses from sin, snatches us from the power of Satan, and gives us eternal life"

Whereas most Baptists believe that you are cleansed from your sins before baptism, yet one must be baptized into their church.

Methodists teach that babies are to be sprinkled with water to free them from original sin, although they say baptism is not essential, all must be baptized to enter the Methodist church as well. It is iteresting to me that they say that to sprinkle a baby is to remove original sin yet it is not essential to salvation, this even troubled Wesley.

Church of Christ believes that baptism is essential to salvation, and is for believers by immersion.

Catholics sprinkle, pour and immerse and require such of babies and adults.


Again the point being the division just about this one subject, dealing with baptism is and was enough to divide people into seperate groups. I give DHK credit for stating what should be the attitude of those who teach false doctrine, either Christ and His Apostles taught that baptism is essential and for the remission of sins or they did not, if we teach that to which they did not we are not unified with them and we should be concerned.

But as well if there is any essential point of baptism and there is, it is commanded, which therefore makes it essential, then we should be united on it essentiality. We should strive for the understanding through scripture for its purpose. But then again even people of the same denomination cannot agree on that.

It goes far beyond just a few differences in worship, I believe that the scriptures teach that we should strive to be of one mind. Paul said that those in Rome obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine to which they were freed from a life of sin. I wonder how many different forms of doctrine they had?

I hear this excuse that "if we don't get things just right according to scripture" as if striving to do exactly what God said to do is a bad thing. We are not talking about being sinless, we are talking about God saying this and then we do it. Example: God has given us examples of when the first century gathered for worship as an assembly, it was on the first day of the week. This is simple it is not hard to follow, yet we have denominations determined that we meet on Sat.

Division is sin, Jesus called us to be united in HIm as He is in the Father (John 17)

 

[Pastor Larry]

Denominationalism is inherently and fundamentally wrong.

I agree, but when people stopped being Baptistic as the NT teaches, denominations arose based on different beliefs. If everyone would go back to following the NT, we would all be Baptists and there would be no other denominations.

 

[Stanedglass]

The fact is that "baptismal regeneration" is a heresy. The apostles never believed it. It is not taught in the Bible. The only ones that did teach it were certain heretics and certain denominations. Therefore it does become a denominational belief, an errant one, one that is not biblical. If you believe that baptism is necessary for salvation you do not believe the same gospel that the apostles believed which is clearly set forth in 1Cor.15:1-4. You will note in those verses "the gospel by which you are saved" there is no baptism mentioned.

Eph.2:8,9 and Rom.5:1 also testify to the simplicity of the gospel without baptism as well as hundreds of other Bible passages.

Those who believe otherwise Paul says they believe another gospel (Gal.1:6-9). Then he says that those who bring that "other gospel" are accursed. That is a terrible position to be in.

Romans 6:3-5 (King James Version)

3Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?

4Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.

5For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection:


Looks as though they did my friend!

Verse 5 pretty much explains it! If we are planted together in the likeness of his death WE SHALL BE ALSO in the likeness of his resurrection!

How are we planted together in his likeness of his death? Verse 4 tells us, baptism. Could we not say then "If we are not planted together in the likeness of his death we shall not be also in the likeness of his resurrectin?

Just a thouht. But would love to hear your view on this as well.

I look forward to reading your reply DHK!

 

[Agnus_Dei]

I agree, but when people stopped being Baptistic as the NT teaches, denominations arose based on different beliefs. If everyone would go back to following the NT, we would all be Baptists and there would be no other denominations.

This is absolutely hilarious, now that we've narrowed the Protestant denominations down to "Baptist", now all we have to do is narrow down the hundreds of Baptist sub-denominations to one that's the true NT Church!

Good Luck with that pastor!

In XC
-

 

[matt wade]

This is absolutely hilarious, now that we've narrowed the Protestant denominations down to "Baptist", now all we have to do is narrow down the hundreds of Baptist sub-denominations to one that's the true NT Church!

Here's an even more hilarious one for you. I don't believe Baptists should be lumped in with Protestants.