Depart from me I never knew you...

[awaken]

It was brought to my attention in another thread about two verses that have always puzzled me! I am praying and searching out the meaning and how they come together without contradiction so I am opening up this thread to discuss these two verses.

Mark 9:37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Also Matthew 7
15 Beware * of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits *. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot * bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them *, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever * * heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Any thoughts...I am just beginning this...so this could go in many directions!
Thanks again, Don! I love a challenge!

 

[awaken]

21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them *, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

One thing I see in these verses is that they proclaimed to do it, but did they?
The works of Father...what are the works of the Father?
He also warns about false prophets, There must have been real prophets around in order for them to warn them about the false ones.
He said we shall know them by their fruits? Gal.5 right?

 

[awaken]

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
Isn't Jesus rebuking his disciples for there intolerance here?

 

[Yeshua1]

39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
Isn't Jesus rebuking his disciples for there intolerance here?

glad to see you asking questions on these passages!

Would say Jesus here was stating in modern terms

just because he is preaching in a non Baptist church, dont assume that i am not blessing that ministry!
or that only calvinists, or non calvinists, are used by me!

 

[Yeshua1]

It was brought to my attention in another thread about two verses that have always puzzled me! I am praying and searching out the meaning and how they come together without contradiction so I am opening up this thread to discuss these two verses.

Mark 9:37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

Also Matthew 7
15 Beware * of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
16 Ye shall know them by their fruits *. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot * bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them *, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24 Therefore whosoever * * heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

Any thoughts...I am just beginning this...so this could go in many directions!
Thanks again, Don! I love a challenge!

the thing to remember on signs and wonders miracles etc is NOT did that stuff happen, but what do they say about jesus/Gospel, and the truths of the bible, for satan is involved in many things under name of christ that have been let loose in the church now!

 

[awaken]

Mark 9:37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us.
39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me.
40 For he that is not against us is on our part.
41 For whosoever shall give you a cup of water to drink in my name, because ye belong to Christ, verily I say unto you, he shall not lose his reward.
42 And whosoever shall offend one of these little ones that believe in me, it is better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he were cast into the sea.

I see in this passage that there were believers in Christ who saw the disciples praying and getting results, and they themselves began to minister to others, seeing the same results. The disciples were concerned that they were not a part of their group and set out to set them down. Jesus correction here was that if they are not working against them they were working for Him.

He also says in John 10:16 that he had other sheep that were not of the disciples.
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear me voice,; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

 

[Scarlett O.]

awaken -

These people in the text, they are banking on getting into heaven and living for an eternity with a God that they actually do believe exists by their own merit. They've done some pretty impressive things, spiritually speaking, and in their own eyes, they did it all by themselves. They behaved LIKE a Christian .... but impressive and powerful behavior, without a transformation by God, is only play-acting.

They aren't crying out, "LORD, LORD have mercy on me a sinner..". They are crying out, "LORD, LORD, look at me! Look at what I did! Arent' I GREAT!"

 

[awaken]

awaken -

These people in the text, they are banking on getting into heaven and living for an eternity with a God that they actually do believe exists by their own merit. They've done some pretty impressive things, spiritually speaking, and in their own eyes, they did it all by themselves. They behaved LIKE a Christian .... but impressive and powerful behavior, without a transformation by God, is only play-acting.

They aren't crying out, "LORD, LORD have mercy on me a sinner..". They are crying out, "LORD, LORD, look at me! Look at what I did! Arent' I GREAT!"

Yes, in that scripture...I understand that! They also claimed to do mighty things, but did they?

 

[BobRyan]

I see in this passage that there were believers in Christ who saw the disciples praying and getting results, and they themselves began to minister to others, seeing the same results. The disciples were concerned that they were not a part of their group and set out to set them down. Jesus correction here was that if they are not working against them they were working for Him.

He also says in John 10:16 that he had other sheep that were not of the disciples.
"And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear me voice,; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd."

Yes I agree.

And in Romans 2:13-16 even Gentiles with no access to the Bible at all - who are moved by the Holy Spirit, born again - with the New Covenant promise of the Law written on their heart - are accounted as though they were Jews and members of the chosen nation in heaven.

in Christ,

Bob

 

[Don]

Yes, in that scripture...I understand that! They also claimed to do mighty things, but did they?

The original question I asked you had to do with speaking in tongues. As the verse you're looking at states, some prophesied in His name, but He told them He never knew them. I asked: if this is true of prophesying, couldn't it also be true for speaking in tongues?

The answer is found in Acts 8 with Simon the magician. He was working "miracles" but his power was from Satan; but the people believed he received his power from God. And even after he heard Philip and believed and was baptized, he still had a problem: he offered money to Peter to be able to lay hands on people. His heart still wasn't right with God.

So I submit to you that it is possible to prophesy, to speak in tongues, to heal, and other gifts; but that they may NOT be of God. And those will be the ones that cry out, "Didn't we do that in your name, Lord?" And He will respond, "I never knew you."

 

[Yeshua1]

The original question I asked you had to do with speaking in tongues. As the verse you're looking at states, some prophesied in His name, but He told them He never knew them. I asked: if this is true of prophesying, couldn't it also be true for speaking in tongues?

The answer is found in Acts 8 with Simon the magician. He was working "miracles" but his power was from Satan; but the people believed he received his power from God. And even after he heard Philip and believed and was baptized, he still had a problem: he offered money to Peter to be able to lay hands on people. His heart still wasn't right with God.

So I submit to you that it is possible to prophesy, to speak in tongues, to heal, and other gifts; but that they may NOT be of God. And those will be the ones that cry out, "Didn't we do that in your name, Lord?" And He will respond, "I never knew you."

Many will see to god that we followed Jesus, but they followed to false one of the SDA/Mormons/JW/Most charasmatics etc, NOT the same one in the Bible!

 

[awaken]

The original question I asked you had to do with speaking in tongues. As the verse you're looking at states, some prophesied in His name, but He told them He never knew them. I asked: if this is true of prophesying, couldn't it also be true for speaking in tongues?

The answer is found in Acts 8 with Simon the magician. He was working "miracles" but his power was from Satan; but the people believed he received his power from God. And even after he heard Philip and believed and was baptized, he still had a problem: he offered money to Peter to be able to lay hands on people. His heart still wasn't right with God.

So I submit to you that it is possible to prophesy, to speak in tongues, to heal, and other gifts; but that they may NOT be of God. And those will be the ones that cry out, "Didn't we do that in your name, Lord?" And He will respond, "I never knew you."

I have always agreed that the fakes are out there!
These people claim they did something...but it does not
prove they DID them!
Did Simon claim to do miracles in Jesus name? I see the people giving credit to God for his scorcery, but not Simon himself! It says he pointed to himself as some great one..not God!

 

[Yeshua1]

I have always agreed that the fakes are out there!
These people claim they did something...but it does not
prove they DID them!
Did Simon claim to do miracles in Jesus name? I see the people giving credit to God for his scorcery, but not Simon himself! It says he pointed to himself as some great one..not God!

The charasmatic Movement either CANNOT point to ANY gifted to heal /miraclesas the Apsotles were, or else the ones they can point to are very dubious, as they have a different gospel and jesus, so any supernatural happenings would NOT be of HS, but that of spirit of antichrist!

 

[Don]

These people claim they did something...but it does not prove they DID them!

That argument doesn't hold water. Acts 8:9 says Simon used sorcery; and Acts 8:11 says the people were bewitched by his sorceries. Simon not only claimed that he did something, scripture says he did them.

Did Simon claim to do miracles in Jesus name? I see the people giving credit to God for his scorcery, but not Simon himself! It says he pointed to himself as some great one..not God!

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. If you're trying to say that someone who's doing a miracle and gets their power from Satan cannot say that it comes from God Himself, scripture doesn't agree with that (remember 2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God; and Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.)

If someone does a miracle, and they claim it is of God, then:
a) It's of God.
b) They've been deluded to believe it's of God.
c) It's of their god (in most cases, this means Satan).

Either way, they're not lying. They just might not mean God.

Edited to add: If someone comes before the congregation speaking in tongues, or healing, or even prophesying, the saved believer *MUST* evaluate that person(s) objectively, and not be deceived.

 

[Yeshua1]

That argument doesn't hold water. Acts 8:9 says Simon used sorcery; and Acts 8:11 says the people were bewitched by his sorceries. Simon not only claimed that he did something, scripture says he did them.


Not sure what point you're trying to make here. If you're trying to say that someone who's doing a miracle and gets their power from Satan cannot say that it comes from God Himself, scripture doesn't agree with that (remember 2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God; and Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.)

If someone does a miracle, and they claim it is of God, then:
a) It's of God.
b) They've been deluded to believe it's of God.
c) It's of their god (in most cases, this means Satan).

Either way, they're not lying. They just might not mean God.

and since we KNOW that MOST of the charasmatic teachers have heretical views, and claim that the HS told them those 'revelations!"

Would that be modern blashemy of/against the HS, by claiming to do thsoe things in name of christ, but really done in name of satan?

 

[awaken]

The charasmatic Movement either CANNOT point to ANY gifted to heal /miraclesas the Apsotles were, or else the ones they can point to are very dubious, as they have a different gospel and jesus, so any supernatural happenings would NOT be of HS, but that of spirit of antichrist!

Can you stick to the discussing the scriptures!

 

[awaken]

That argument doesn't hold water. Acts 8:9 says Simon used sorcery; and Acts 8:11 says the people were bewitched by his sorceries. Simon not only claimed that he did something, scripture says he did them.

Yes! Simon did sorcery! But he does not say he gave credit to God but himself! I can see what you are saying comparing the two! Acts 8 he did them,yet did not give credit to God!
In the OP scriptures they claim they did them! But in a sense they still gave credit to what THEY were doing!

Not sure what point you're trying to make here. If you're trying to say that someone who's doing a miracle and gets their power from Satan cannot say that it comes from God Himself, scripture doesn't agree with that (remember 2 Thess 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God; and Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.)

If someone does a miracle, and they claim it is of God, then:
a) It's of God.
b) They've been deluded to believe it's of God.
c) It's of their god (in most cases, this means Satan).

Either way, they're not lying. They just might not mean God.

Edited to add: If someone comes before the congregation speaking in tongues, or healing, or even prophesying, the saved believer *MUST* evaluate that person(s) objectively, and not be deceived.

I agree!

 

[awaken]

and since we KNOW that MOST of the charasmatic teachers have heretical views, and claim that the HS told them those 'revelations!"

Would that be modern blashemy of/against the HS, by claiming to do thsoe things in name of christ, but really done in name of satan?

NOt if God really manifested Himself through them!

Satan has counterfeits! But that does not prove the real does not exist!

 

[Yeshua1]

NOt if God really manifested Himself through them!

Satan has counterfeits! But that does not prove the real does not exist!

How can the HS "manifest' Himself thru the ministries of those who teach a perverted Gospel, and another jesus though, isn't he the Spirit of truth?

 

[Don]

Yes! Simon did sorcery! But he does not say he gave credit to God but himself! I can see what you are saying comparing the two! Acts 8 he did them,yet did not give credit to God!

Again, what's your real point here? Scripture also does not say that he *didn't* give credit to God; so just like you're guessing that Simon didn't give credit to God, we can just as easily say he did. You're trying to make an argument from silence; so as you told Yeshua, let's stick to what scripture says -- which is that the people believed it was from God, so obviously Simon didn't deter them from thinking that way.