Depravity of Man Purposed or Not?

So true. I challenged P4T's interpretation here “Real” Ability of all God’s Creatures to Respond to the Influence of Him/Seek Truth and he did nothing more than whine, tuck his tail and duck out. Yet, here is he again repeating the same thing. :tonofbricks:

 

HT,
God has purposed to save a multitude in His Son....not a minority..see the following;

Humblethinker, there are alot of stars out there...God said to him ...so shall thy seed be......sounds like alot! amen.

Humble...here is a good link for the 1689 confession of faith;
http://www.vor.org/truth/1689/1689bc00.html

Here is a book I recommend to all baptists...you can download it to your computer for only 5$....the paperback is about 15...maybe 17-18 with tax and postage......it is the best book you will buy this year, unless you buy a new bible!

here is a free 522 page book on cal/arm
http://www.lulu.com/items/volume_60/928000/928860/2/print/Calvinism_Book.pdf

 

Van, I agree with you, when it says "there is none that doeth good, no, not one" it is speaking of being 100% good at all times. It cannot mean that man never does good, because the scriptures many times say men did do good. Calvinism reverses this to say man does 100% evil, which contradicts scripture.

2 Kngs 22:2 And he did that which was right in the sight of the LORD, and walked in all the way of David his father, and turned not aside to the right hand or to the left.

Josiah did good.

Zacharias and Elisabeth, the parents of John the Baptist did good.

Luk 1:6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

I don't know about you, but Zacharias and Elisabeth seem pretty good to me according to the scriptures.

So, this teaching that man is incapable of doing true good in God's sight is unscriptural.

 

Interesting, we are accused of adding an "ever" but van wants to add "at all times." If it says, man does not seek, it means exactly what it says. It doesn't mean that men don't seek all the time, but sometimes do.

It's also interesting how many keep wanting to argue for natural good in man. We say that we are 0% good and that we didn't see after God on our own. the other side wants to take some credit for their seeking. Interesting.

 

Calvinists don't understand Romans 3? Oh, but we do. We also understand the tenses and moods of the wording that it means none seek God ever. It's also taught throughout Romans, not just here. It's also in the OT from where Paul got this.

Here we have some that think they're pretty good and seek after God, people to whom Christ said without Him we can do nothing. Nothing but pride and error, and a failure to see that outside of Christ and His enabling we are at war, at enmity, hostile in our minds, in darkness, lost, without Christ, and without hope. The only seeking we think we've done is when God drew us to Him and was setting us apart by His Spirit (1 Peter 1:2; foreknown, chosen, elected, set apart from before the beginning of creation, in that we COULD obey) to bring us to His son. Yet you claim you can do this in and of yourself at anytime. Not so. The Glory is to God, not man. Paul counted his religion as dung, it was a religion, it was not a seeking for God. God sought him, Acts 9.

I tucked tail and whined? Not even close. 1) I gave you a thorough rebuttal of your philosphy via the Word. 2) I then bowed out of the thread, wisely avoiding your little set-up which upset you and foiled your plan. No fear at all exists in me from anyone on this board. None. I wisely bowed out of your snare, and was warned of this by the brethren on here concerning it (you) via PM. Also, there was not even a hint of a "challenge" within your thread. I actually chuckled when I reluctantly went to your thread to see what you "had to say now" and saw then that it was a little trap set up with the subject of me.

I'm flattered, by the way.

I find it humorous that you and others are doing a Luke 11:54 on myself and others in here.

Man cannot seek God unless He draws and enables, sanctifies them &c then they come.

- Grace and Peace to His

 

We don't add "ever" but the TENSE certainly does.

But they certainly have added to our words.

You are 100% correct saying it is interesting they want to argue some natural good in man. It is error. The failure here is to give God all the Glory. Keep the faith jbh28.

- Peace

 

Disregarding the latter part of your statement above, what can man do without Christ?

He says nothing.

Ability to respond to God included.

 

We must be incapable, He gave us much to obey, which we cannot, unless given grace to do so. I take it some don't believe this and believe that they are able.

Saying that we are capable without divine aid is to parrot Pelagius doctrine.

It looks to me that God elects His people by His choosing, calls them, set's them apart by His Spirit and quickens them, justifies them, and will glorify them. Others seem to be blinded to not believe, others He chooses to reserve for punishment. What we see here is Grace, and Justice. This is not a limited view of Scripture but a full, and granted, very brief view of both ends of soteriology, and election in it.

What can we (any of us) do without Christ?

 

I then take it that you are a "double predestinarian"?

 

I know it's easy to assume that, (especially when we see one referring to Scriptural points of "reprobation," "blinded," "reserved" &c) they are then perhaps a "double."

Just showing forth things that are in the Word.

Honestly, all of this is hard for us to grasp. To imply it otherwise is a farce.

 

I am not trying to oversimplify anything in scripture, although I do think the "Gospel" is quite simple and straightforward.

So you "are not" a double predestinarian?

 

Be assured that I am not saying you are simplifying or oversimplifying anything here. Just making comment that anyone who thinks these things simple is incorrect in their assessment, so it was a general statement.

I haven't looked into exactly what "double" teaches. Have you read into this much?

I really dislike labels though.

 

God permitted Adam to fall, by allowing them a "free will" choice, and has determined/decreed that even from the midst of Creation effected by Sin and Death, that God WILL get the glory by rstoring a fallen Creation fully back to Himself, and that he WILL save unto Himself a group of pweoples that he redeems out from midst of a now fallen race!

We say man now is born depravied/spiritually dead

CAN follow God in the sense that all can still see God in His creation, as per Romans, but that NONE can come to a saving knowledge of Jesus Christ until God "opens them up" to receive Jesus by faith! man apart from special workings of God can follow the god they made up, based upon their ability to "understand: general revelation, but in order to becomne saved, must have special revelation shown to them by God!

 

As I understand it, single predestinarians feel that God has ONLY elected the "some" to salvation while simply disregarding the others in their sin.

"Double predestinarians (I think) belive that God actively elected the "some" to salvation and simultaneously intentionally elected the remainder to eternal torment.

Please correct me if you find this to be incorrect.

 

God does not do anything in" response to".... God always uses plan A.
He has destined and purposed to save a multitude from fallen mankind.
God is only obligated to His elect, and that only because He has vowed an oath, covenant , or promise to them..

The elect here are described as those who have;
fled for refuge
to lay hold of the promise [hope,as in expectant promise]

we flee for refuge, we lay hold of the promise.....then we discover we only do so because it is God working in us and enabling us to do it.

Some think a man dead,and seperated from God can do this on their own, but they are mistaken.

I believe there will be a majority saved as the gospel continues to spread worldwide.....it could continue on for thousands of years.