menageriekeeper
Active Member
Yep, they were saved. Paul was giving reassurance that their faith wasn't in vain and to do the things he recommended and doubts about thier salvation wouldn't occur.
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Depression
- Thread starter Mark Osgatharp
- Start date
Mark Osgatharp
New Member
Menageriekeeper,
That is not what Paul said. What he said was for them to trust God with everything in their lives. If we would do that - which I admit I don't always do - then our hearts and minds would be worry free.
Mark Osgatharp
That is not what Paul said. What he said was for them to trust God with everything in their lives. If we would do that - which I admit I don't always do - then our hearts and minds would be worry free.
Mark Osgatharp
menageriekeeper
Active Member
We agree! But worry free doesn't mean that our brains/bodies won't break down and get sick.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately some people confuse mental health with spiritual health. Some people even confuse physical health with spiritual health. The best that can be said about such people is thay they are simply confused.
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
I accept that God waited until recent years to give man the cure for many ailments. But God didn't promise in His word to cure these ailments.
By stark contrast, He did, by the pen of Paul, promise the Philippian saints that if they would follow his example of faith and trust in God, they would experience the peace of God that passes all understanding in their hearts and minds.
Which is nothing other than what Christ Himself promised when He said,
"Come unto me all ye that labor and are heavy laden, and I will give you rest."
Mark Osgatharp </font>[/QUOTE]I take it you ignored the message from guitarpreacher so I'll repeat it.
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So if that's true, all mental illness such as depression or bi-polar disorder is a spiritual problem that are cured by focusing our thoughts on the pure things of God, then you have to believe that James 5:14-15 is just as true.
"14Is any one of you sick? He should call the elders of the church to pray over him and anoint him with oil in the name of the Lord. 15And the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well; the Lord will raise him up. If he has sinned, he will be forgiven"
Please tell me that no one in your church has suffered from cancer or heart disease, or the flu, or common colds, or broken bones, or chicken pox or allergies or migrane headaches........
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"and the prayer offered in faith will make the sick person well." I guess that destroys your little lunacy about depression and other physical diseases.
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
I believe you are confused. Clinical depression is not worry!
Mark Osgatharp
New Member
Depression is worry. It is deep seated, uncontrollable, worry and fret of mind. I've been there and done it.
The key word in that last statement beinc "uncontrollable." Please understand, I am not suggesting that depression is something we can just choose to have or not. I am not suggesting it is just the normal everyday cares and worries of life.
In fact, I used to make light of people who said they were "in a depression." I used to think, "oh, get over it."
Then it happened to me. The wild, terrifying, skin crawling, UNCONTROLLABLE, feelings that my whole world was coming to an end - and nothing that anyone said did any good.
I have experienced what any shrink worth his salt would identify as "clinical depression." Don't tell me I don't know what depression is. I know what depression is.
Furthermore, I know that Jesus Christ is the one who brought my feet up out of the miry clay and set my feet on a rock.
He didn't use a shrink nor prozac to do it. Just a loving wife, a couple of good friends, an occasional dose of Nyquil at bed time, and a whole lot of prayer, Bible study and soul searching (all of which can be demonstrated from the Bible to be God's means of imparting comfort to His people).
Mark Osgatharp
O
OCC
Guest
Mark, I see what you are saying. Why didn't He heal you right away? And since He didn't heal you right away, how can you know your method is the only one. He can take a lot of time to heal you the way He did, or He can take a lot of time to heal you through the use of medicine.
menageriekeeper
Active Member
Mark, what are you going to do if the skin crawling comes back?
You may believe you have a handle on it, and by the grace of God you may even have a handle on it at the moment. I hope you realize though that there are very few people who have experienced clinical depression who only have just one period of it.
Just for your information, skin crawling and feelings of terror are NOT normal feelings of depression. Those come later when untreated or improperly treated chemical imbalances(may not be a serotonin issue) worsen. Or worse, they are symptoms of a different problem than depression altogether. You seriously need to pay attention to your symptoms and not just chalk everything up to spiritual problems. Prozac may not be the answer to your problem. Many other things can cause such symptoms, including diabetes or even past drug use. If you become symptomatic again, you need a complete physical workup first(not a shrink) to rule out those problems.
Mark, I realize how difficult it is to acknowledge a possible mental problem. I was raised in the south myself and know the shame that is placed on a person who admits they have a problem that is out of control. I watched that shame ruin my mother's life. She couldn't admit that she was "crazy", so she was improperly treated and the basic problems were never dealt with. That led to drug addiction and worsening symptoms and eventually led to her being barely able to function at the present. she has early onset alzheimer's on top of all the other problems. this all came about because she was improperly treated at the beginning of her problems. (I do not blame the doctors for this. she never fully disclosed her problems to them and the doctors didn't have the treatments they have today to deal with her)
You owe it to your wife to ensure that you have done everything possible to be healthy both spiritually and physically. Mental problems can be sneaky and the saying the person suffering is often the last to know is true.
You may believe you have a handle on it, and by the grace of God you may even have a handle on it at the moment. I hope you realize though that there are very few people who have experienced clinical depression who only have just one period of it.
Just for your information, skin crawling and feelings of terror are NOT normal feelings of depression. Those come later when untreated or improperly treated chemical imbalances(may not be a serotonin issue) worsen. Or worse, they are symptoms of a different problem than depression altogether. You seriously need to pay attention to your symptoms and not just chalk everything up to spiritual problems. Prozac may not be the answer to your problem. Many other things can cause such symptoms, including diabetes or even past drug use. If you become symptomatic again, you need a complete physical workup first(not a shrink) to rule out those problems.
Mark, I realize how difficult it is to acknowledge a possible mental problem. I was raised in the south myself and know the shame that is placed on a person who admits they have a problem that is out of control. I watched that shame ruin my mother's life. She couldn't admit that she was "crazy", so she was improperly treated and the basic problems were never dealt with. That led to drug addiction and worsening symptoms and eventually led to her being barely able to function at the present. she has early onset alzheimer's on top of all the other problems. this all came about because she was improperly treated at the beginning of her problems. (I do not blame the doctors for this. she never fully disclosed her problems to them and the doctors didn't have the treatments they have today to deal with her)
You owe it to your wife to ensure that you have done everything possible to be healthy both spiritually and physically. Mental problems can be sneaky and the saying the person suffering is often the last to know is true.
Mark,
I do not agree that Prozac is a good medicine (the suicide rate alone attributed to Prozac is enough to scare me).
But, if you are on Prozac - STAY under a Doctor's care.
However, God has been good to you through a wife and a few friends.
You should be extrodinarily thankful that God intervened and protected you.
[ September 24, 2005, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: El_Guero ]
I do not agree that Prozac is a good medicine (the suicide rate alone attributed to Prozac is enough to scare me).
But, if you are on Prozac - STAY under a Doctor's care.
However, God has been good to you through a wife and a few friends.
You should be extrodinarily thankful that God intervened and protected you.
[ September 24, 2005, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: El_Guero ]
OK folks,
There are TWO sides to the study of Psychiatry.
One is the cause. The other is the physical.
Now it has been years since I studied the Science of Psychiatry, but from what I remember:
The single greatest cause of psychiatric illness is ABUSE (especially at an early age in childhood and especially severe abuse). Probably the second greatest cause is diabetes/hypoglocemia. There are many other physical causes as well.
ALL medications that I know of result in worsening feelings of depression in some people.
There are TWO sides to the study of Psychiatry.
One is the cause. The other is the physical.
Now it has been years since I studied the Science of Psychiatry, but from what I remember:
The single greatest cause of psychiatric illness is ABUSE (especially at an early age in childhood and especially severe abuse). Probably the second greatest cause is diabetes/hypoglocemia. There are many other physical causes as well.
ALL medications that I know of result in worsening feelings of depression in some people.
Some of the statements that I have read indicate an intensity that is probably the result of being to emotionally tied to the problem.
I.e., it sounds like many people are making statements about emotional illness because of a close family member or friend.
This is hazardous. EACH person is different.
Just as Mark should not treat other people in the same manner that God has healed him. WE should not expect people to be healed by what we have seen in family members and friends.
I.e., it sounds like many people are making statements about emotional illness because of a close family member or friend.
This is hazardous. EACH person is different.
Just as Mark should not treat other people in the same manner that God has healed him. WE should not expect people to be healed by what we have seen in family members and friends.
Bible Believing Bill
<img src =/bbb.jpg>
Please keep in mind that people taking Prozac and similar medications are the ones at risk for Suicide. There has been some causality linked to these drugs and suicide(specificly in children), but how many people do these drugs keep from committing suicide. That is a number that can not be quantified.
Also keep in mind that a Bipolar individual needs to be treated for their depression and their mania. If they only receive treatment for one or the other they have a higher likelihood of suicide than if their illness is properly treated.
Bill
Priscilla Ann
Member
As I have read this thread, I see that many here are ready to condemn Prozac, based on what they have read and heard.
I have been on 20 mg. of Prozac per day since 1990, with absolutely no side affects. Prior to that, I had tried prayer, counseling, self-help books..... You name it, I tried it. Some days I was so depressed that I could not get out of bed to go to work. I had a happy marriage, a good job, a beautiful child....a great life. I was still depressed, and unable to function. In my situation, the depression was accompanied by an eating disorder. With the help of a wonderful internist, dietician, competent psychologist and Prozac, I got my life back. I have not had an episode of depression or a recurrance of the eating disorder for 15 years. I have a happy marriage and family life, and a job that I love.
This is just my experience. Depression is something that is different for everyone. How they deal with it is between the individual and God. God answered my prayers for healing from depression by providing me with wonderful doctors and the proper medication. Praise God!
PA
I have been on 20 mg. of Prozac per day since 1990, with absolutely no side affects. Prior to that, I had tried prayer, counseling, self-help books..... You name it, I tried it. Some days I was so depressed that I could not get out of bed to go to work. I had a happy marriage, a good job, a beautiful child....a great life. I was still depressed, and unable to function. In my situation, the depression was accompanied by an eating disorder. With the help of a wonderful internist, dietician, competent psychologist and Prozac, I got my life back. I have not had an episode of depression or a recurrance of the eating disorder for 15 years. I have a happy marriage and family life, and a job that I love.
This is just my experience. Depression is something that is different for everyone. How they deal with it is between the individual and God. God answered my prayers for healing from depression by providing me with wonderful doctors and the proper medication. Praise God!
PA
StraightAndNarrow
Active Member
Please keep in mind that people taking Prozac and similar medications are the ones at risk for Suicide. There has been some causality linked to these drugs and suicide(specificly in children), but how many people do these drugs keep from committing suicide. That is a number that can not be quantified.
Bill </font>[/QUOTE]This is an extremely misleading statement. In fact, in most cases exactly the opposite is true. Taking the appropriate medication prevents a large number of people from committing suicide. The existence of a very few teen-agers who took Prozac and then committed suicide is probably more indicative of pressure from their parents or peers not to take medication until it was too late.
The evidence that children and adolescents who start taking antidepressants might be at risk comes from a study of children and adolescents who were placed on a variety of different antidepressants. None committed suicide, but they did report a hightened occurance of suicidal ideation.
Children and adolescents are at an increased risk for suicidal ideation when first beginning taking antidepressants, but this risk decreases after several months. If a child or adolescent is so severely depressed as to possibly be at risk for suicide, I'd say antidepressant treatment would be worth the risk because there is already a present danger. Mild depression can probably be treated without drugs.
No drug is without its side effects, so anyone who is on antidepressants or anti-anxiety medication and their families as well should be watchful for any changes in mood or behavior.
That said, I think they can be worth it, as antidepressants probably saved my sister's life.
Children and adolescents are at an increased risk for suicidal ideation when first beginning taking antidepressants, but this risk decreases after several months. If a child or adolescent is so severely depressed as to possibly be at risk for suicide, I'd say antidepressant treatment would be worth the risk because there is already a present danger. Mild depression can probably be treated without drugs.
No drug is without its side effects, so anyone who is on antidepressants or anti-anxiety medication and their families as well should be watchful for any changes in mood or behavior.
That said, I think they can be worth it, as antidepressants probably saved my sister's life.
jshurley04
New Member
Prozac is not the only medication that is given for depression. My son is currently on alternatives to prozac and is doing wonderful. The benifits far outweigh the downers. To suggest that a medication causes suicide is not honest and also doing a disservice to what those who are on the medication have the ability to become.