Deuteronomy 32:26-27 and man's understanding and decisions

[webdog]

Deu 32:26 (The Lord speaking about Israel)
I would have said, "I will cut them to pieces; I will wipe them from human memory,"
Deu 32:27 had I not feared provocation by the enemy, lest their adversaries should misunderstand, lest they should say, "Our hand is triumphant, it was not the LORD who did all this."'

What was it that the Lord feared in regards to what the heathen would think and misunderstand about the Lord taking out His wrath on His people? These verses sure seem to show the free agency of man, and the ability to reason and think on their own, does it not? It seems that this further shows that the Lord allows man the freedom of their decisions, but not the consequences of those actions while remaing sovereign. Thoughts?

 

[webdog]

Don't everyone jump in at once

 

[Pastor Larry]

I think the verse proves just the opposite, that the pagans would do something they thought they were doing freely and were taking credit for, while in fact, God was behind it.

God does allow man free reasoning and free choices. Remember, Calvinism does not dispute that. Calvinism recognizes the biblical teaching that man's reasoning and choices are sinful because man is sinful (cf Eph 4:17-19; etc.)

 

[webdog]

I don't understand God saying "I would have...but". To me that shows a decision made based on another decision, or an impending decision, or the possibility of a free thought. I don't see how you see the verses as showing the opposite of that.

It would be like me saying, "I'd invite my friend at church to a sports bar, but they might be offended". My thoughts and decision (or lack thereof) is based on the possibility of my friends thought process.

 

[Pastor Larry]

So are God's thoughts the same as yours? The fact that we as humans think a certain way does not mean that God thinks the same way. But the point seems to be that God was doing something that the enemies could take credit for through their own actions. We know from Israel's history that God quite often directed foreign armies to bring judgment on Israel, though those armies did not know they were being used in such a way, but rather thought they were acting on their own.

 

[webdog]

So are God's thoughts the same as yours? The fact that we as humans think a certain way does not mean that God thinks the same way.

Doesn't Scripture tell us we have the mind of Christ?

But the point seems to be that God was doing something that the enemies could take credit for through their own actions.

I don't see that at all from a plain reading of the text. A plain reading of the text alludes to the fact that a decision had been made due to the possibility of anothers thought, decision or outcome.

 

[Pastor Larry]

Doesn't Scripture tell us we have the mind of Christ?

yes, it also says God's ways are higher than our ways and his thoughts higher than our thoughts. Having the mind of Christ is about changing the way we live, not about understanding all the ins and outs of God's decree and purpose.

I don't see that at all from a plain reading of the text. A plain reading of the text alludes to the fact that a decision had been made due to the possibility of anothers thought, decision or outcome.

Yes, but how is that contradictory to what I said, and illustrated through God's work elsewhere? These enemies weren't operating apart from the sovereign control of God. We see that over and over again throughout the OT.

These are hte kinds of arguments that demonstrate the desperateness with which you guys go after this argument. You take something and completely abuse it in hopes of coming up with the silver bullet. But that comment has to be put in the context of Scripture, even if the "plain reading" isn't clear to you. I think it is clear.