Dichotomy or Trichotomy?

[Bro. Ruben]

Truly, verses can be used to support one’s view.

My question on this is, should one believes in dichotomy where does the spirit go after death if Eccl. 3:21 says that the spirit of man goes up upon death?

Pretty new in BB; if already discussed just kindly lead me to the link and the Mods may delete this query.

Mucho gracias.

 

[Bro. Ruben]

That is, for an unbeliever.

Forgot to say, sorry.

 

[saturneptune]

Brother Ruben,
According to Luke 16:23, the rich man (a lost person) went to hades. From what I understand Hades is sort of a holding place until final judgement where the unsaved person will enter the Lake of Fire. (Rev 19) However, this is one of those subjects that has many different verses and probably many different ideas which will never be resolved in this life. I am sure you have noticed all the difference of opinion from very highly educated people in this board (such as free will vs Calvinism) that will never be solved in this life.

That is my take on it, but, the main thing is those of us who are saved will be with the Lord, regardless of the timing of events.

Have a good day, bro.

 

[Bro. Ruben]

Originally posted by saturneptune:
Brother Ruben,
According to Luke 16:23, the rich man (a lost person) went to hades. From what I understand Hades is sort of a holding place until final judgement where the unsaved person will enter the Lake of Fire. (Rev 19) However, this is one of those subjects that has many different verses and probably many different ideas which will never be resolved in this life. I am sure you have noticed all the difference of opinion from very highly educated people in this board (such as free will vs Calvinism) that will never be solved in this life.

That is my take on it, but, the main thing is those of us who are saved will be with the Lord, regardless of the timing of events.

Have a good day, bro.

Thank you for your input.

You see, I'm just thinking myself what becomes of the spirit when a man dies without Christ in his/her life. Would it perish in hell together with the soul?

In Genesis it was very clear how God made man; He formed the dust, "created" the soul (the real man) and then breathed the breath of life (which I believe is the spirit). BTW, I believe in trichotomy. But my view can be changed depending on how good people would explain to me the dichotomy.

Anyways, I will be waiting for more replies.

Thanks again, and have a nice day, too.

 

[saturneptune]

Bro Ruben,
I am sorry, to a degree, I misunderstood your question. Yes, I have heard of the difference between the soul and spirit. This is way beyond what I know, but from what I have heard, it is the soul that goes to hades for the unsaved, then reunited with the spiritual body at judgement time. Someone help me here. I think the two places in the parable mentioned above are the temporary places for saved and lost, then the permanent places would be the Lake of Fire and Heaven. It could be the soul and spirit are reunited at the time of the permanent place.

You see, there we go again, talking in a frame of reference of time. God is eternal and outside of time. Someone please help Bro Ruben with a much better explanation than this.

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by Bro. Ruben:
In Genesis it was very clear how God made man; He formed the dust, "created" the soul (the real man) and then breathed the breath of life (which I believe is the spirit). BTW, I believe in trichotomy. But my view can be changed depending on how good people would explain to me the dichotomy.

In Genesis, God breathed into man and man became a "living soul" (KJV). The word used for "soul" is pseuche which is variously translated "soul, spirit, life, being, creatures." The animals are also said to be "pseuches" in Genesis.

Also, in both the OT and NT the words "soul, life, heart, bowels, spirit" seem to often be used interchangeably.

I am currently a dichotomist who believes there is a material and an immaterial part of man. But I won't kick people out of the church for believing something different.

 

[Rippon]

I am a dichotomist . But one of my favorite authors -- Arthur A. Pink held to trichotomy . I believe he was wrong , however his overwhelmingly solid material offset that defect .

 

[Revmitchell]

I am not trying to be off topic but the scriptural example given for the premise of this thread is wrong.

Luke 16:19-31 is not appropriate scripture to gain doctrine on hell, or the soul. The key to understanding this parable,(and it is a parable) is in luke 15:1-2.

This parable was spoken of in response to the criticism of Jesus hanging out with sinners. Jesus was telling a parable to give an illustration to man who thinks that his success in life shows that he is blessed by God.

When you study parables you do not try to gain doctrine from the details of a parable. It was not intended that way. In parables we should study and learn from the overall idea and not details.

As far as Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy:

2Co 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

 

[Dr. Bob]

Dichotomy is more than material v immaterial. That is platonism.

I'm a trichotomist (God will sanctify your body, soul and spirit, I Thess 5) so will leave the original question to be answered by one of the others.

 

[Gina B]

Some people believe that man is a dichotomy (since the fall) until the indwelling of the Holy Spirit, at which point he is returned to his state as tri.

In Genesis we are said to have been created in the image of God, which is a trinity, and that concept is repeated by Paul in this verse: 1 Thess. 5:23 - And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

I don't think there are many true dichotomists, because they link spirit/soul as one thing.

Guess I'll have to wait and see what they say.

I personally believe we are tri, and that spirit of our natural father Satan, which guides the inclination of the unbeliever, is replaced by our adoptive Father, God, with His Holy Spirit when a person is adopted.

 

[Calvibaptist]

Originally posted by Gina L:
I don't think there are many true dichotomists, because they link spirit/soul as one thing.

Guess I'll have to wait and see what they say.

Here is the problem...the Hebrew word that is translated "soul" is nephesh. According to the Brown-Driver-Briggs dictionary it can have the following meanings: "soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, appetite, emotion, and passion." The Greek word for soul is pseuche. According to the Liddel-Scott Lexicon, it has the following meanings: "breath, life, spirit, ghost, heart, mind, understanding, appetite."

The Hebrew word translated "spirit" is ruach. According to BDB, it can have the following meanings: "breath, wind, spirit." The Greek word translated "spirit" is pneuma. According to LS, it has a variety of meanings, such as: "blowing, a blast of wind, gentle breeze, breath, spirit."

There are two verses in the OT where the Hebrew word for spirit is used, but the LXX (Septuagint) uses the Greek word for soul (Isaiah 58:11; Jeremiah 38:12).

Now, with the wide variety of meanings of both the Hebrew and Greek words (some of them overlapping), and the usage (at least twice) of two different words in Hebrew and Greek in the same verses, it is extremely hard to come to a definite doctrine of either di- or tri-.

I tend to lean towards di- specifically because of the interchangeableness of the words in the original languages.

 

[Bro. Ruben]

Originally posted by Revmitchell:
I am not trying to be off topic but the scriptural example given for the premise of this thread is wrong.

Luke 16:19-31 is not appropriate scripture to gain doctrine on hell, or the soul. The key to understanding this parable,(and it is a parable) is in luke 15:1-2.

This parable was spoken of in response to the criticism of Jesus hanging out with sinners. Jesus was telling a parable to give an illustration to man who thinks that his success in life shows that he is blessed by God.

When you study parables you do not try to gain doctrine from the details of a parable. It was not intended that way. In parables we should study and learn from the overall idea and not details.

As far as Dichotomy vs. Trichotomy:

2Co 5:8
We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord.

Revmitchell:

I don't believe the event in Luke 16 was a parable; nowhere in the Bible that a parable uses a common name. Lazarus is a common name, and Abraham was also mentioned.

This was an actual event; a history.

 

[Gina B]

Originally posted by Calvibaptist:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Gina L:
I don't think there are many true dichotomists, because they link spirit/soul as one thing.

Guess I'll have to wait and see what they say.

Here is the problem...the Hebrew word that is translated "soul" is nephesh. According to the Brown-Driver-Briggs dictionary it can have the following meanings: "soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, appetite, emotion, and passion." The Greek word for soul is pseuche. According to the Liddel-Scott Lexicon, it has the following meanings: "breath, life, spirit, ghost, heart, mind, understanding, appetite."

The Hebrew word translated "spirit" is ruach. According to BDB, it can have the following meanings: "breath, wind, spirit." The Greek word translated "spirit" is pneuma. According to LS, it has a variety of meanings, such as: "blowing, a blast of wind, gentle breeze, breath, spirit."

There are two verses in the OT where the Hebrew word for spirit is used, but the LXX (Septuagint) uses the Greek word for soul (Isaiah 58:11; Jeremiah 38:12).

Now, with the wide variety of meanings of both the Hebrew and Greek words (some of them overlapping), and the usage (at least twice) of two different words in Hebrew and Greek in the same verses, it is extremely hard to come to a definite doctrine of either di- or tri-.

I tend to lean towards di- specifically because of the interchangeableness of the words in the original languages. </font>[/QUOTE]The words may be *somewhat* interchangeable, but they are still distinct. To come to the conclusion that they are the same seems unreasonable in light of the trinity of God, the creation of man in His image, and the the useage of three separate terms within one verse in Thessalonians.

umwn to pneuma kai h psuch kai to swma
From this Link

I cannot think of another time when the three occur together, but spirit and soul are certainly used together in separate places. In the song of Mary, which is sung from her words, we sing "My soul doth magnify the Lord, my spirit rejoices in God my savior, for my soul doth magnify the Lord". This is taken from Luke 1:46-47, which says the following:
46 And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord, 47 And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour.

Here you have the soul, which is, becoming greater, while the spirit, the emotional part, rejoicing. It's a wonderful distinction.
Baker's link, defining spirit

I enjoyed reading the definitions of spirit and soul in here.

There are some that disagree with me on this or change the two around, but here's a distinction I use between the two.

Your soul simply is. It's you. It can be good or bad, but it's eternal. It's the knowing part of you.

Your spirit can change and grow. It's what other people feel when you come in contact with them. Have you ever had someone leave the room and they had such a strong presence, (good or bad) you still felt them? That's their spirit. It is what Christ works through in us. When your spirit is renewed it gives you a breath of fresh air, a new cause to rejoice, a new feeling. It is what pushes you to express emotions like anger, or kindness, or love.

 

[Bro. Ruben]

Originally posted by Dr. Bob:
Dichotomy is more than material v immaterial. That is platonism.

I'm a trichotomist (God will sanctify your body, soul and spirit, I Thess 5) so will leave the original question to be answered by one of the others.

Sir, since we have the same stand. What's your take on a lost man's spirit when he/she dies? Where does it go?

I'm waiting for your reply.

Many thanks.

 

[tinytim]

I also am tri.. somewhat because of the verse Dr Bob quoted, and the fact that we are made in the image of God, and since God is a trinity......

 

[Bluefalcon]

I'm a dichotomist, but frankly, this has little to do with anything practically.