Dichotomy or Trichotomy?

[Allan]

Ok, I deleted my post by accident: Here are what I already have copied but I don't remember everything I put in it (added for clarification) orginally.

They are interchangable since they are the same in essence and being but they are also scripturally distinct one from another.

Now about the Soul and Spirit:

SOUL: The Soul stands for the personal life or for the idividual. It has and conveys emotion (Jer 31:25) and it wars against the lusts of the flesh (Rom 8:16) It is interesting to note the Soul is most ascribed as OUR emotional center and place of desire (ie. His soul was in anguish, it vexed his soul ect...)

SPIRIT: The spirit is related to the higher aspects of man (Rom 8:16 - The Spirit bares witness with our spirit...) We know that all men have a spirit and that spirit may also be corrupted (2 Cor 7:1) in light of this verse we have a clear understanding of why we must renew our minds- which is why we must renew our minds due to corruption (Rom 12:2) and since a walk with God is more than just itellectualism but some that is to be transforming it is transcending of the natural mind.

Though we see a distinction in scriptures concerning the spirit and soul we can also see that they are both facets of the same being (or being the equated as the same) and therefore can be used interchangably when speaking of the person as a whole in/or doing an action based upon certain or specific types of motivation (intelect or a being of emotion)
NOTE - Emotion here is not a negitive (as is an emotional responce) but a discriptor of the charactor AND OR a final reason for an action. EXAMPLE: Jesus pour out His life [being] for our sakes to the salvation of the soul. Jesus did this because His choice was based on His charactor [love] and that determind it's final action (and since He was sinless He didn't have to argue with himself )

Heart: is most often associated with the soul since it is the core of our desire and the large concept of all of the facets of mans immaterial nature. This is synonymous with the physical center of life and our spiritual core also regarding life.

Mind: The mind is the facet of mans immaterial nature where understanding is centered. This is also synonymous with the physical mental center of intellect and our spiritual faculty with regard to understanding and insight and can be hindered (darkened or dead to truth) or grow (enlightened or made alive with truth now understood.)

Some of the above is from Ryrie's study bible on the doctrine of Man and well as my own thoughts.

 

[Rippon]

I also think that 80% of the time ( or more )the words heart and mind refer to the same thing i.e. they are interchangeable.

 

[Allan]

I also think that 80% of the time ( or more )the words heart and mind refer to the same thing i.e. they are interchangeable.

No question, and I agree but we must also remember that there is also a distinction between them as well. They work in together and thus 80% of the time are seen as one and the same because it takes both for that particular action. However there is the 20% (or so) of the time where they are spoken of distinctly.

Thus like the spirit and soul. They work together and thus are and can be spoken of as one and the same relating to the total being at work but they are also spoken of as distinct.

 

[EdSutton]

Trichotomy!

Therefore I will not restrain my mouth;I will speak in the anguish of my spirit; I will complain in the bitterness of my soul. (Job 7:11 - NKJV)

9 With my soul I have desired You in the night, Yes, by my spirit within me I will seek You early; For when Your judgments are in the earth, The inhabitants of the world will learn righteousness. (Is. 26:9 - NKJV)

23 Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. (I Thes. 5:23 - NKJV)


12 For the word of God is alive and powerful, and sharper than any two-edged sword, piercing even to the dividing in two of the soul and spirit, and of the joints and t marrow, and is a critic of the thoughts and intents of the heart. Heb. 4:12 - my rendering)

Scripture makes a distinction between the soul and spirit, of the 'immaterial' part of man, so I will do the same. The fact that we, on our own, cannot make this 'division', doesn't mean that the Word of God cannot, for it in fact, does.

BTW, to correct some often used language, I do not have a soul, nor do I have a spirit. Rather, I are both of the above, currently 'tabernacling' in a temporal body. The day will surely come, when I shall put off this temporal body, for the purpose of to receive a permanent 'resurrection' body of immortality, and of the same sort as Jesus had after His resurrection. Amen! :thumbs:

Ed

 

[Rippon]

PS. You can find scripturally where salvation and the soul are connected but where do find salvation and our spirit connected?

Luke 1:47 : How my spirit rejoices in God my Savior!

 

[jdlongmire]

This doctrine of a threefold constitution of man being adopted by Plato, was introduced partially into the early Church, but soon came to be regarded as dangerous, if not heretical. It being held by the Gnostics that the πνεῦμα in man was a part of the divine essence, and incapable of sin; and by the Apollinarians that Christ had only a human σῶμα and ψυχή, but not a human πνεῦμα, the Church rejected the doctrine that the ψυχή and πνεῦμα were distinct substances, since upon it those heresies were founded. In later times the Semi-Pelagians taught that the soul and body, but not the spirit in man were the subjects of original sin. All Protestants, Lutheran and Reformed, were, therefore, the more zealous in maintaining that the soul and spirit, ψυχή and πνεῦμα, are one and the same substance and essence. And this, as before remarked, has been the common doctrine of the Church.76

See here for the whole article - it is thorough.
javascript:toggle('fnf_iii.ii.ii-p7.9');

 

[Allan]

Luke 1:47 : How my spirit rejoices in God my Savior!

That is not exactly what I was looking for though it is a good one, thank you.
This is more like what I was refering to:

Psa 35:3 Draw out also the spear, and stop [the way] against them that persecute me: say unto my soul, I [am] thy salvation.

or

Psa 62:1 Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him [cometh] my salvation.

 

[jdlongmire]

1 Corinthians 5:5
I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

 

[Allan]

1 Corinthians 5:5
I have decided to deliver such a one to Satan for the destruction of his flesh, so that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

That is more what I was looking for. Thank you.
But.. in context.. is this refering to them getting saved/savlation?

 

[Allan]

PS. You can find scripturally where salvation and the soul are connected but where do find salvation and our spirit connected?

This question I posed was more for my personal curiousity than a direct challange. I appreciate the two passages presented. I had not found any that I could think of relating to the spirit but I figured there should be something since both aspects are seen as the whole of man and salvation encompasses both. Again I appreciate it.

 

[Rippon]

References Are From The HCSB

Psalm 35:3 : Draw the spear and javelin against my pursuers, and assure me:"I am your deliverance."

Psalm 62:1 : I am at rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him.

Those verses have no soul.

 

[Allan]

Psalm 35:3 : Draw the spear and javelin against my pursuers, and assure me:"I am your deliverance."

Psalm 62:1 : I am at rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him.

Those verses have no soul.

They do just not in the texts yours was tranlated from as seen here:

[[To the chief Musician, to Jeduthun, A Psalm of David.]] Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him [cometh] my salvation.
King James Version 1611, 1769

NKJV - Psa 62:1 - PSALM 62
To the Chief Musician. To Jeduthun. A Psalm of David. TRULY my soul silently waits for God; From Him comes my salvation.
New King James Version © 1982 Thomas Nelson

NIV - Psa 62:1 - For the director of music. For Jeduthun. A psalm of David.
My soul finds rest in God alone; my salvation comes from him.
New International Version © 1973, 1978, 1984 International Bible Society

ESV - Psa 62:1 - To the choirmaster: according to Jeduthun. A Psalm of David.
For God alone my soul waits in silence; from him comes my salvation.

RVR - Psa 62:1 - En Dios solamente está acallada mi alma; De él viene mi salvación.
Reina-Valera copyright © 1960 Sociedades Bíblicas en América Latina; copyright © renewed 1988 United Bible Societies.

NASB - Psa 62:1 - My soul {waits} in silence for God only; From Him is my salvation.
New American Standard Bible © 1995 Lockman Foundation

RSV - Psa 62:1 - To the choirmaster: according to Jeduthun. A Psalm of David. For God alone my soul waits in silence; from him comes my salvation.
Revised Standard Version © 1947, 1952.


ASV - Psa 62:1 - For the Chief Musician; after the manner of Jeduthan. A Psalm of David. My soul waiteth in silence for God only: From him [cometh] my salvation.
American Standard Version 1901 Info


Young - Psa 62:1 - To the Overseer, for Jeduthun. -- A Psalm of David. Only -- toward God [is] my soul silent, From Him [is] my salvation.
Robert Young Literal Translation 1862, 1887, 1898 Info


Darby - Psa 62:1 - {To the chief Musician. On Jeduthun. A Psalm of David.} Upon God alone doth my soul rest peacefully; from him is my salvation.
J.N.Darby Translation 1890 Info


Webster - Psa 62:1 - To the chief Musician, to Jeduthun, A Psalm of David. Truly my soul waiteth upon God: from him [cometh] my salvation.

There appears to be lots of soul brother, lots of soul

 

[Rippon]

References Are From The Net Bible

Ps. 35:3 : Use your spear and lance against those who chase me! Assure me with these words :"I am your deliverer!"

Ps. 62:1 : For God alone I patiently wait; he is the one who delivers me.

There is not a sole reference to soul.

 

[Allan]

Ps. 35:3 : Use your spear and lance against those who chase me! Assure me with these words :"I am your deliverer!"

Ps. 62:1 : For God alone I patiently wait; he is the one who delivers me.

There is not a sole reference to soul.

editted...
The authur's messed up... well maybe not specifically messed up but were incorrect in not redering it soul since the word could be translated as 'me' or 'my life' as well
(I went back to TCGreek's old thread on the HCSB has no soul, cause I remembered something about that there)

Seems you need a new bible.

 

[Rippon]

Seems you need a new bible.

I have about 18 as it is, so I don't think I need a new Bible.

 

[Allan]

I have about 18 as it is, so I don't think I need a new Bible.

I'm always looking for a new one :laugh:

 

[Rippon]

editted...
It the authur's messed up.

That was an edit?! The Author ( not Authur ) of Scripture is the Holy Spirit."It the authur's messed up."?! Get some sleep Allan.

 

[Rippon]

The following is taken from Gordon H. Clark's book :New Heavens,New Earth : A Commentary On First And Second Peter.

The end of our faith is the salvation of our souls. The word soul has several connotations in the Bible, and its later usage in the English language has increased rather than diminished the range of its meanings. At this point it need only be noted that the salvation of our souls is not meant to exclude the salvation of our bodies, but rather, as in Genesis 2:7 and Acts 27:37, the word soul means person. A stupid literalism often produces strange doctrines. A kindly old gentleman -- he was personally a lovely character -- used to argue that man was composed of three things, body, soul, and spirit. (Genesis 2:7 shows that there were just two, not three, components.) Then on the basis of Ecclesiastes 12:7 he hinted that there was no salvation for the body. The body decayed in the dust. The soul that sinned was to die, and other souls were to be saved. But the spirit returns to God who gave it; and so no spirit is ever lost. It requires no technical knowledge of Hebrew or Greek to avoid such peculiar conclusions. a good training in the Shorter Catechism in Sunday School will lay the foundation. Some acquaintance with Charles Hodge or Benjamin Warfield will provide logical analyses of Scripture. And for the rest, a little searching with a concordance will fill in the details. (pages 26,27)

 

[skypair]

I believe after being born again, you can not separate the spirit from the soul. but they are 2.

I agree with you -- they are 2 BUT ... Heb 4:12 says, "For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit,..." That is, when a lost person hears the word, often they will believe with the heart but the soul has not yet trusted God. Hence, the conviction of the Holy Spirit.

skypair

 

[ReformedBaptist]

See here for the whole article - it is thorough.
javascript:toggle('fnf_iii.ii.ii-p7.9');

This is what raised the question for me. I was reading Hodge's Systematic Theology and so I asked what folks believed.