I agree that schools are necessary. I just don't think government should be involved in them at all. I think each local community should create and support its own school. A state, city, or local government does not need to be involved. A group of parents just need to work together and develop how they would like to deal with schooling in their small, local, neighborhood. This may consist of parents pooling together money to pay a teacher to teach their children. This could consist of the parents deciding that one of them will be the teacher and the other parents will just help out with supplies and such. It could mean many different things, but should be decided at that local level. The moment government is involved, bureaucracy becomes involved and problems start.
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Dick Durbin kills successful public school voucher system
- Thread starter rbell
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I agree that schools are necessary. I just don't think government should be involved in them at all. I think each local community should create and support its own school. A state, city, or local government does not need to be involved. A group of parents just need to work together and develop how they would like to deal with schooling in their small, local, neighborhood. This may consist of parents pooling together money to pay a teacher to teach their children. This could consist of the parents deciding that one of them will be the teacher and the other parents will just help out with supplies and such. It could mean many different things, but should be decided at that local level. The moment government is involved, bureaucracy becomes involved and problems start.
windcatcher
New Member
Vouchers are a difficult program to allow on a consistent basis. We all agree we need better public schools and better prepared public school teachers. Paying property taxes doesn't automatically entitle us to the proceeds from our taxes. If we really want the best public schools we are hard pressed to see a benefit by denying them the money we can use to support them.
Of course the salient point is that education is not a right, though if we desire it for our children it is a guarantee in the United States. We are a blessed nation because we can educate our children in a system that has a fairly level playing field. Denying the public schools the public money needed to support them seems to be a silly prospect. Now can we reasonably say that there are other ways to push money towards our schools? Certainly. But I have often said that anytime a person who advocates vouchers and then votes for public funding of the new sports stadium has a big problem.
We need to have schools at are monuments to scholasticism and teachers that are trained to compete with the best and brightest among us. To deny them the funds they need to operate so that people who decide to remove their children (often on perfectly legitimate grounds) from that free public system seems to deny us our ability to teach with excellence. If you desire for your child to a great, private education that is certainly your right. But in doing so we must realize that we can't take away from those who desire to give their children great, public education.
Vouchers are a tough sell imho. We need not demonize people over the issue either way though.
Editted to add: I am a big fan of charter schools and a classical education.
Thanks to Salty, I have the following link to post regarding cost per pupil for education by state: http://www.ppinys.org/reports/jtf/pupilspending.htm
The average for all states was a little over $9,100.00 per student. I seriously doubt that vouchers supply the private schools with the equal financial resources as those of the public sector.... so considering that those students would have been taught in the public schools.... wouldn't the expense of their education increase the burden on the tax payer if educated in the public schools? When the purpose of taxes for education is to ensure that we have a citizendry which is educated..... why do we deny parents a choice in the education of their children by insisting that they are sent to state supported schools? Is it because education means more than 'education'....... i.e. it means controlling the melieu in which children can learn: it means providing values or indoctrination into those which best represent what the parents desire in exposure: it may even mean retaining the influence of a particular culture or support of religious beliefs which are agreeable to both parents and child.
While one may see flaws in this, is it not true that even the public system engages these aspects of education... only it is aimed more at conformity, countering the intrusion of variant beliefs and values in the home which differ or are at odds from the direction of political correctness of society at large.... or more importantly.... the influence of educators who are involved in the very policy making decisions after receiving their indoctrination in the public universities... and being lead by those who are promoted from within based more upon their political and fraternal affiliations than their commitment to the communities and values most favored by society's majorities?
These threads/links have a glimpse of info which should cause any parent to worry who has no choice but to depend on public schools for their children. Its enough to make my long hair stand on end! (well almost)
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63326
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,579846,00.html?test=latestnews
http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?t=63193
Here in a conservative community, where the school boards makes a special effort to background screen on every employee hired.... still hardly a year goes by without some report of a teacher in the tri-county area... either abusing a child, or engaging in an inappropriate relationship. While the same may occur in a private school..... the financial control of parents on the purse strings and their added involvement in the quality and values promoted in their children's education increases the odds that their wishes will be followed..... to include a quality education as well as a value system which is supportive of those values upheld in the home.
You know what, you're right. I retract the "trash" statement.
I must admit...I can't stand that guy, ever since he trashed our military in front of Congress, and accused them of being as bad as Hitler's and Pol Pot's army. (SOURCE)
It just bothers me that there are people stupid enough to elect him...and it bothers me that we put our sons and daughters in harms way to defend someone like him who doesn't appreciate them or their efforts.
What's more, he's willing to destroy the best of our education system...just so he can buy more votes from his educrats and organized crime buddies.
And then on top of all that...he's willing to endanger our country, just so he can buy some votes with some government jobs.
Corrupt? Without question. He's dirty as sin. And if one of these gitmo goons gets out in Illinois, and causes any ruckus whatsoever, then I think it's time for Durbin to go on trial for treason...and let the punishment fit the crime (through our legal and judicial system, to be clear).
Bob Alkire
New Member
I like and agree on what you are saying. I guess you could say that is how I went to school. I was what they call today home schooled. However we might take English at Mr. and Mrs. Jones house and history at Mr. and Mrs. Smith house and math and algebra at my house. Their was a group of us in some fields of study of maybe 20 and other fields 6. We played ball or took music at the local school.
But, here comes the big but, to many parents don't put that much time in their children today. It isn't just work and social live of the parents, it is to many kids are having children and they might not been taught what is needed to be a parent. I know we had a good idea from watching our parents, as well as other parents and what was taught in SS and church (even though I didn't accept Jesus Christ as my Savior until later) as well as at home.
It isn't money either or I don't think it is. It is what values that the parents have and what they were raised with. We were what would have been called poor today, but I didn't know it. Didn't have indoor pluming or electricity and so on.
Parents can't do or teach what they don't know.
Hogwash, Horsefeathers, Poppycock, and bovine scatology.
You can't see the difference between a voucher and government endorsement of religion?
Perhaps a visit to an opthamologist is in order...
That would be true if vouchers were extended only to religious private schools. But if vouchers are extended to all accredited private schools without regards to whether they are religiously affiliated or not, then it's not a violation of Separation of Church and State (both the Constitutional provision and the Baptist Distinctive).
CTB knew that. He just will go to any length to distance himself from agreeing with a conservative about anything.
A vast majority of folks on the BB (to some degree) are willing to think for themselves. I don't think CTB is one of them.
Sounds wonderful. Parents coming together to teach their children. I bet you guys had a better education than most public or private schools of today.
Here's a couple of things that people are going to think me harsh for, but I can't really say it any other way. First, it's not my responsbility to train up and teach other people's children. It's their responsibility. I know, I know...think of the children! It isn't their fault. Well, here's the second part that will sound harsh. We need workers that are highly educated. We need field workers and people to do menial labor. Part of the reason we have such a problem with illegal immigration is that they are filling jobs that too many Americans think they are too good for. If we had more "uneducated" people, we'd have workers for those jobs. That's not to say that the "uneducated" jobs are any less valuable. On the contrary, those types of jobs are what keep our country going. Part of the problem in our country right now is that everyone thinks that everyone should be part of the upper class. It's the new communism, except that everyone thinks they should have everything...not just all things divided.
Fire? Sweep them out? LOL Yah, as if.
If people cared that much, these people who devalue education and human life wouldn't have been elected in the first place.
Christians are the minority now. Our values and our way of living is being taken away, and less and less people care.
This is not where you whine about what is, this is where you rejoice in what will be. You are seeing prophecy fulfilled in your lifetime. It's both tragic and triumphant for all who believe.
Bob Alkire
New Member
It isn't new, it was true with my wife and I. We want at least what we were raised with. Most of us get it, but it takes longer than we had believed. Most of us live better than our parents. Now the upper class might be a little different, but we want a good amount more than what we were raised with.
It would have to be new, because when I was in the USSR in the 60's, it looked like equally shared poverty.
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