Did anyone get lost while I was gone?

[steaver]

Hey guys!

I have been away for awhile, been over on the political board trying to interject God into the discussion but it has been very challenging. They seem to think that God is just watching to see what happens!

I see some folks here still fear losing their salvation. I lost my salvation once, well I thought I did, and then God showed me where it was hid in Christ. That was a close one there for awhile.raying:

I made a prediction back in 2007 that no one here would lose their salvation by the end of the year. Well, am I a prophet or not? I trust I got that one right, but it could have been a fluke so I will make another prophecy prediction that no one participating on this board will lose their salvation in 2008. We'll see!

Ya know, if truth be told, I would say that no one here who believes one can lose their salvation EVER lost their's! If their is one, please share.

God Bless!

ps, Good word of the day. If you ever do lose your salvation just ask me or someone who knows where to find it (many on this board knows) and we will show you where it is hid in Christ.:wavey:

 

[BobRyan]

I lost it for few days -- but then I got it back again.

Bob

 

[steaver]

I lost it for few days -- but then I got it back again.

Bob

Oh yeah, where did you find it, did Christ have it?

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

It got lost in Rom 11 but then I got it back "he is able to restore them again if they do not continue in unbelief" - Rom 11.

 

[trustitl]

Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned."

Hebrews 10:26 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, 27 But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries. 28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses: 29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"


Curious to know what you do with these verses. Please refrain from going to another verse to show that this verse does not fit with your doctrine.

 

[steaver]

Hebrews 6:4 "For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, 5 And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, 6 If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame. 7 For the earth which drinketh in the rain that cometh oft upon it, and bringeth forth herbs meet for them by whom it is dressed, receiveth blessing from God: 8 But that which beareth thorns and briers is rejected, and is nigh unto cursing; whose end is to be burned."

What say you BobRyan? According to this passage you could not have lost your salvation and then had it restored again. It seems Romans 11 is being misinterpreted by your theology for Hebrews 6 needs no interpreting, it is point blank. "Impossible" means "impossible".

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

"he is able to restore them again if they do not continue in unbelief" - Rom 11.

Let me guess- you are trying to find a solution for "making this text go away".

 

[Palatka51]

What say you BobRyan? According to this passage you could not have lost your salvation and then had it restored again. It seems Romans 11 is being misinterpreted by your theology for Hebrews 6 needs no interpreting, it is point blank. "Impossible" means "impossible".

God Bless! :thumbs:

Glory to the Holy Name of the Almighty God for there is nothing that can remove me from His Mighty Hand. :jesus: His Right Hand BTW. :godisgood:

 

[windcatcher]

My thought is that Hebrews 6:4 is talking about an intensive or progressive walk of faith which occurs over a period of time and has endured much testing, but some challenge to faith is presented and the person who originally possessed faith changes, deliberately chooses to depart, knowing fully well that he is turning his back on Jesus Christ. He chooses to leave God: It's not a matter of God leaving him: However, once a person makes this choice, God is under no obligation or presumption that He will accept the person back: Even repentance requires conviction of sin: but a person so hardened as to not only embrace ' not caring' but also to embrace sin in open defiance/ perhaps even a challenge to God's own authority has refused the authority by which conscience is moved to repentance and cannot return because there is nothing remaining to draw him back.

I believe Hebrews is a serious warning, not just against deliberate sin, but also for us to be on guard at all times regarding our attitude towards God, and the influences which may cause doubt and disbelief, and/or following into apostate doctrines.

 

[billwald]

No way to tell until I kick the bucket.

 

[steaver]

My thought is that Hebrews 6:4 is talking about an intensive or progressive walk of faith which occurs over a period of time and has endured much testing, but some challenge to faith is presented and the person who originally possessed faith changes, deliberately chooses to depart, knowing fully well that he is turning his back on Jesus Christ. He chooses to leave God: It's not a matter of God leaving him: However, once a person makes this choice, God is under no obligation or presumption that He will accept the person back: Even repentance requires conviction of sin: but a person so hardened as to not only embrace ' not caring' but also to embrace sin in open defiance/ perhaps even a challenge to God's own authority has refused the authority by which conscience is moved to repentance and cannot return because there is nothing remaining to draw him back.

I believe Hebrews is a serious warning, not just against deliberate sin, but also for us to be on guard at all times regarding our attitude towards God, and the influences which may cause doubt and disbelief, and/or following into apostate doctrines.

Interesting, but I will just stay with the original language as written.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

"he is able to restore them again if they do not continue in unbelief" - Rom 11.

Let me guess- you are trying to find a solution for "making this text go away".

You guess wrong BobRyan. I am trying to show you how your Romans 11 views cannot harmonize with Hebrews 6's crystal clear word that if one could lose their salvation it would be IMPOSSIBLE to restore them again!

"Impossible" . One of those "pesky little details" you speak of that you of all people, one who preaches "details", must ignore.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[steaver]

No way to tell until I kick the bucket.

No assurance of salvation? Study the letters from John, spend some time in prayer over them. John makes it clear that Jesus wants us to KNOW we have eternal life. You need not "wait and see".

Also, while I got you here, check the threads you have posted in. I think you have some unanswered questions to a "Paulene theology" statement you made.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[Ed Edwards]

I'm still saved. I back slid a bit in February, but that is under the blood now :godisgood:


OSAS Proof Text
The example of 'Reductio ad absurduem' in Hebrews 6:4-6:

Heb 6:4-6 (KJV1611 Edition):

For it is impossible for
those who were once inlightned,
and haue tasted of the heauenly gift,
and were made partakers of the holy Ghost,
5 And haue tasted the good word of God,
and the powers of the world to come;
6 If they shall fall away,
to renue them againe vnto repentance:
seeing they crucifie to themselues the Sonne of God afresh,
and put him to an open shame.

INTRODUCTION TO THE 'Reductio ad absurduem',
STATEMENT OF INTENTION:
For it is impossible for

THE TRUE PROPOSITIONS (STATEMENTS):
those who were once inlightned,
and haue tasted of the heauenly gift,
and were made partakers of the holy Ghost,
5 And haue tasted the good word of God,
and the powers of the world to come;

THE PROPOSITION (STATEMENT) TO BE PROVED FALSE:
6 If they shall fall away, to renue them againe vnto repentance:

THE THEN PORTION (THE CONCLUSION)
THAT LOGICALLY FOLLOWS THOSE IF PROPOSITIONS:
seeing they crucifie to themselues the Sonne of God afresh,
and put him to an open shame.

THE MISSING PARTS OF THE ARGUMENT:

Of course, it is obsurd that Jesus will not be crucified
again nor shamed. So the proposition to be proved
false:
6 If they shall fall away, to renue them againe vnto repentance:
has been proved, the saved cannot fall away from salvation.
Has been proved by 'Reductio ad absurduem'

However, I note about 1/3 of the New Testament is advice on how to live like a Christ-one, act like a Christ-one, talk like a Christ-one, be a Christ-one. So let us encourage one another to walk like a Christian, talk like a Christian, hope like a Christian!

 

[steaver]

I'm still saved. I back slid a bit in February, but that is under the blood now :godisgood:

I slide alot myself, but Christ just keeps picking me up!

I thought I might have lost it once about ten years ago but I found it, it was right there where I left it and forgotten about it, hid in Christ.

Good post on Hebrews brother! :thumbs:

God Bless!

 

[BobRyan]

Hint - in Heb 6 Paul is NOT arguing the case "Of course you have no problem at all because it is impossible for you to have any difficulting in persevering -- after all if persevering were a problem for anyone then they could never get back to being saved again and we all wouldn't want that to be true now would we".

Though I suppose we can all "imagine" that such a text existed.

In the mean time --

Romans 11
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.[/b][/b]

 

[steaver]

Hint - in Heb 6 Paul is NOT arguing the case "Of course you have no problem at all because it is impossible for you to have any difficulting in persevering -- after all if persevering were a problem for anyone then they could never get back to being saved again and we all wouldn't want that to be true now would we".

Hint into what? There is no hidden explanation in the passage. It is very clear just as written.

Here is a hint for you...."pesky little detail".

ps. colorful post of Romans 11 and easy to read as well with the larger print. But it still did not help you come to the correct teaching of the passage.

Another hint....Rewriting Hebrews 6 is not the answer to making your saved then lost then saved analogy work for you. That is not proper exgesis.

God Bless! :thumbs:

 

[BobRyan]

Romans 11
20 Quite right, they were broken off for their unbelief, but you stand by your faith. Do not be conceited, but fear;
21 for if God did not spare the natural branches, He will not spare you, either.
22Behold then the kindness and severity of God; to those who fell, severity, but to you, God’s kindness, if you continue in His kindness; otherwise you also will be cut off.
23And they also, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again.[/b]




Oops! That text is "still in the Bible"

For those who enjoy "all" of scripture -- enjoy!