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Did Arminius get a better understading of truth than John Calvin?

Hobie

Hobie

Well-Known Member
rockytopva said:
Let no man beguile you of your reward in a voluntary humility and worshipping of angels, intruding into those things which he hath not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, - Colossians 2:18
And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons, which the Father hath put in his own power. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth. - Acts 1:7-8


There are things in life, including who gets in the Book of Life, that are not for us to know. I consider the teachings of John Calvin intrusions into the things which he did not know. Our business is to do what we can to have the Holy Spirit come upon us and be witnesses to that power, and of the Lord Jesus Christ.
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I think the Reformers like the Disciples were walking in the right direction with Christ, but many things for them were still left to be unveiled.
 
Dave G

Dave G

Well-Known Member
Hobie said:
I think the scripture is clear on that...

1 John 2:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

1 Timothy 4:10 King James Version (KJV)
10 For therefore we both labour and suffer reproach, because we trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe.

2 Peter 3:9 King James Version (KJV)
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
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I think that there's a lot more to the details of this subject than the 3 passages you listed have to say.
For example:

" But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." ( 2 Peter 3:8-10 ).

Who are the "us-ward" here?
 
Hobie

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Dave Gilbert said:
I think that there's a lot more to the details of this subject than the 3 passages you listed have to say.
For example:

" But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day [is] with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.
10 But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up." ( 2 Peter 3:8-10 ).

Who are the "us-ward" here?
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I agree, and the Any and All give a clue on the "us-ward"...
 
Hobie

Hobie

Well-Known Member
Dave Gilbert said:
How about the "beloved" in verse 8? ;)
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I always like this text...

1 John 4:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
 
B

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
Hobie said:
I always like this text...

1 John 4:7-9 King James Version (KJV)
7 Beloved, let us love one another: for love is of God; and every one that loveth is born of God, and knoweth God.
8 He that loveth not knoweth not God; for God is love.
9 In this was manifested the love of God toward us, because that God sent his only begotten Son into the world, that we might live through him.
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not sure what you mean ?
 
T

tyndale1946

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Hobie said:
It would make not sense for Christ to say to preach to all the world otherwise:

Matthew 24:14
And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.
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There are many ends in scripture and just because it says end, it is not the final end... History and the Bible go hand in hand and especially ancient history... Taken out of context you have made something, that it is not... Something ended but it was not this world... Also their are many worlds in the Bible also but that is another subject... Brother Glen:)
 
B

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
Which Gosepl ?
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tyndale1946 said:
There are many ends in scripture and just because it says end, it is not the final end... History and the Bible go hand in hand and especially ancient history... Taken out of context you have made something, that it is not... Something ended but it was not this world... Also their are many worlds in the Bible also but that is another subject... Brother Glen:)
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All I'm saying is that verse is talking about the Gospel of the kingdom. Not the death burial and resurrection. ' The end 'is after the tribulation. during that time the Gospel of the kingdom will again be preached ( the same Gospel ( good tidings) that was preached by Jesus and the diciples before the cross .
 
B

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
Hobie said:
Thats like asking what 'world'....
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Do you think that the diciples before the cross are preaching the Gospel of the death burial and resurrection ' the same as Paul later on ? or does it actually say that they were preaching the ' gospel of the KINGDOM ' . Especially as the diciples did not understand Jesus telling them over and over that he was to going to be crucified ect . Instead they try prevent the very thing that can only save the world. Peter even chopping someone's ear off to prevent the crucifixion.
 
B

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
Do you think that the diciples before the cross are preaching the Gospel of the death burial and resurrection ' the same as Paul later on ? or does it actually say that they were preaching the ' gospel of the KINGDOM ' . Especially as the diciples did not understand Jesus telling them over and over that he was to going to be crucified ect . Instead they try prevent the very thing that can only save the world. Peter even chopping someone's ear off to prevent the crucifixion.
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When the diciples hear that Jesus is not in the tomb they call it an " idle tale " . Even on the road to Emaus the diciples did not understand the death burial and resurrection. So they were not preaching the Gosepl Paul mentions ' The Gospel of grace . The Gospel In 1 cor 15 . So the other Gospel the diciples were preaching is different to Paul's Gospel which He recieved only from Jesus .
 
B

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
Barry Johnson said:
When the diciples hear that Jesus is not in the tomb they call it an " idle tale " . Even on the road to Emaus the diciples did not understand the death burial and resurrection. So they were not preaching the Gosepl Paul mentions ' The Gospel of grace . The Gospel In 1 cor 15 . So the other Gospel the diciples were preaching is different to Paul's Gospel which He recieved only from Jesus .
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Before the cross and shortly after the Gospel of the kingdom is preached.
 
Y

Yeshua1

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
Barry Johnson said:
When the diciples hear that Jesus is not in the tomb they call it an " idle tale " . Even on the road to Emaus the diciples did not understand the death burial and resurrection. So they were not preaching the Gosepl Paul mentions ' The Gospel of grace . The Gospel In 1 cor 15 . So the other Gospel the diciples were preaching is different to Paul's Gospel which He recieved only from Jesus .
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The same Gospel was preached by all of the Apostles!
 
B

Barry Johnson

Well-Known Member
Yeshua1 said:
The same Gospel was preached by all of the Apostles!
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Not so .
Luke 18 ( this is after they have already been preaching the ' gospel ' ( The coming Kingdom , which is what they were expecting and would have happened if the Jewish leaders accepted the messiah)

31¶Then he took unto him THE TWELVE , and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished.
32For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on:
33And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.
AND THEY UNDERSTOOD NONE OF THESE THINGS : and this saying was hid from them, neither knew they the things which were spoken.
How could they have been preaching the death , burial and resurrection ( Todays good tidings) when THEY UNDERSTOOD NONE OF THESE THINGS ?????
 
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